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Topic review - Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering
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  Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering  Reply with quote
Series will resume after October 15th, with a much-more indepth 'Quantum Bible' showing all the related passages for the Constantine-Justinian I period.
Post Posted: 08 Oct 2017, 01:56
  Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering  Reply with quote
Update: still haven't had time to review 'barbarian' history, so to better map Luke 21. The other five chapters are mostly done.
Post Posted: 24 Sep 2017, 00:30
  Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering  Reply with quote
Now I'm certain Luke 21 is charting the 'barbarians' history. I don't know their dates as well. So will update Luke21 doc/pdf after I know which dates he references.
Post Posted: 27 Aug 2017, 09:42
  Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering  Reply with quote
Quantum Bible will change to show Matt24-25 as part of a 4-way demo of Justinian, sometime maybe next week.
Post Posted: 14 Aug 2017, 12:07
  Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering  Reply with quote
Okay, going back to Luke's Meter, viewtopic.php?t=521

His Chapter 21 is the only chapter whose meter pattern I still can't prove historically per clause. The keywords fit perfectly with their fellows in Matt24 (prior), Eph1 (seems prior), Mark 13 (after), Rev17 (long after).

Meter looks sound, but I didn't break the clauses apart all the time. Will have to see what difference that makes.
Post Posted: 16 Jul 2017, 18:28
  Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering  Reply with quote
Yeah, it would. Focus in Matthew is not apolitical, we saw how biting it gets starting with Matt24:50 onward. All those refs are political. But the benchmarks (cum syll totals) aren't. Here's where I started tracing the morph to kurios from the prior parousia:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0SdIPsAcKA&list=PL1bv_xPIih3fs-vKfMgiVbt4fmi3Xs3Yf&index=79


In Mark and Rev, the benchmarks seem to stress political. I can't tell WHAT Luke stresses.

Basic idea is that when volition to Bible goes negative, mankind becomes religious then political in that sequence. So yeah, 2018 onward is public. You and I have been batting around the question of intensity. Now I'm beginning to think it will be VERY intense, as the religio-political is going toward CRUSADE by 2030 (for in Russia, the parallel movement is called Third Rome, look it up); which means a 2nd Reformation to free Bible will also go on, within the same time frame or after.

I don't know how long the 2nd Reformation will last, but the 2nd Crusade Reset seems like it ends soon, about 2062. I have no idea how violent it will get, but it doesn't have to, now. We can kidnap/enslave each other via cyber wars.

Like nearly everything else I type and say, these are hypotheses or speculations, guesstimates. So yell at me if they seem wrong.
Post Posted: 06 Jul 2017, 09:48
  Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering  Reply with quote
So "Lord, Lord" and following, is a prediction of Bible rollout being rejected, not so much a direct commentary on the political apostasy? Of course, the apostasy would be the natural result of negative volition, but the Alt-Right is merely a primer at this point. Apostate Alt-Right rises as Bible rollout occurs so that people can be presented with both options.

If so, then wouldn't 2018 have to be a very public rollout?
Post Posted: 06 Jul 2017, 05:18
  Post subject:  Re: THEMES Matt Eph1 Luke Mark Rev  Reply with quote
Think I know the themes:

Matthew 24-25 traces the relationship between Volition to #Bible rollout (positive or negative) and historical results (positive and negative, direct correlation). It's not expressly political.
Eph1 ties the political results to the teaching going bad.
Luke 21? I still don't know.
Mark 13, same theme as Eph1, but tracks Matt24-25. I can't tell exactly how it tracks Luke 21, tho it does track the anaphora and focuses on the same Charlesmagne period, tho for Byzantium.
Rev17 is baldly political.

Matt Mark Rev all use 'kai' to mock a dying emperor, similar to how Paul used the eta in thelematos. Rev uses it pointedly, Mark's pattern of use I've yet to determine. Matt doesn't focus that much on it? Unsure. I can't find whether it's used in Luke. The Luke 21 meter is obvious, but I can't tell what he tracks.
Post Posted: 06 Jul 2017, 02:10
  Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering  Reply with quote
Update: I'm comfortable with the videos now on all but Eph1 and Luke 21. May have to redo some of the Matt24-25 explanation, too. I'm really stymied at what Luke 21's benchmarking. So am in the middle of revisiting Luke 1 dateline meter for clues.

Also, Rev1 dateline meters, as I think John's doing a 3-D meter Rubik's cube to tie up all the themes in Scripture. Proving that idea true will take awhile. Or, finding what is true instead. Have started but not yet uploaded the video revisit on Rev1. I will not post them in vimeo, but in Youtube, in the same playlist, sometime later.
Post Posted: 24 Jun 2017, 10:08
  Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering  Reply with quote
For now, I'm done proofing the explanation. The doc/pdf are updated now, same name, and also in the http://www.brainout.net/downloads directory, along with the videos above in their originals, so you don't have to watch them in Youtube but can download.
Post Posted: 10 Apr 2017, 18:48
  Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering  Reply with quote
Now updated, but am still proofing the explanation. New Feature: click on the keyword in the Greek to go to the note (it's green and underlined now); when in the note, click on the green underlined word to return to the text. The interlinks at the top of each page go to the text.

There are seventy whopping anaphora. Meter is the same, but the sevening is documented now and even the Amen anaphora seven, EXCEPT the one at 1110. But it's deliberately not sevening, tho I'm not yet sure why.

Should work well on mobile, too.

Again, download link is still same name, http://www.brainout.net/Matt24-25ParsedR6.pdf

So here's a navigation video which incidentally covers the astonishing SEVENING between each of the anaphora keywords:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9Dp56eJA_M&index=121&list=PL1bv_xPIih3fs-vKfMgiVbt4fmi3Xs3Yf&t=162s
Post Posted: 03 Apr 2017, 15:21
  Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering  Reply with quote
Not yet updated: the same keywords for their AD years, as I did for Mark 13 and Rev17. I'm kinda pooped out right now. Might be in a month or two before I can document all the keywords now indexed in the revised pdf.
Post Posted: 01 Apr 2017, 17:58
  Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering  Reply with quote
Matt24-25's Meter was updated, so use the link again if you want to see it, http://www.brainout.net/Matt24-25ParsedR6.pdf . Can now download en masse from the downloads directory, http://www.brainout.net/downloads .
Post Posted: 15 Mar 2017, 12:13
  Post subject:  Re: German guys who know Ephesians 1 is METERED  Reply with quote
I finally found the link on another computer to the other guys who long ago realized Ephesians 1 was metered. It's in German, though. I don't know if Google Translate will translate the page, but here's the link: http://www.stichometrie.de/text.html

I used Google translate on the page, https://translate.google.com/translate? ... edit-text=

Notice what scholars call the UBS text (the formal name for United Bible Society, the copyright owner) they call 'GNT', which is the Bibleworks name and also used by scholars as the name. 'NA' stands for Nestle-Aland, a German couple who periodically update the text. In any name, this is the standardized 'critical edition', meaning a compilation of all extant mss leaving in only the text they think is closest to the original. That's what 'Textus Receptus' (which Erasmus did, and the KJV translators initially used) and 'Majority Text' are as well. So there are three major critical editions, but the most prized thus far, is the UBS/GNT/NA.

You can get older NA editions for free in Google Books (free download), but the Greek is not searchable.

You then view it with what's called an 'apparatus', which is a compilation of all the mss VARIANTS from the UBS/GNT/NA text, and that's what's in Bibleworks, along with some of the actual major mss which have long since been on facsimile and are also freely online. But Bibleworks indexes each verse, so you can see the original and the transliteration side by side.

Point is, when you get into these weeds, you have to know the nomenclature scholars use, to know what you're looking at. And these guys are scholars. But they don't know the meter of BIBLE, but instead are evaluating GREEK CLASSICAL METER and testing Ephesians 1 (among others) as fitting that meter, too.

I can't get into Twitter right now. Seems like they are refurbishing the site, cuz the signin page keeps changing then does nothing when you click on it. So I'll put the link in your Youtube comments on my videos, too.
Post Posted: 01 Mar 2017, 07:22
  Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering  Reply with quote
Okay, all three are up now, and they coordinate with boxed cum meter totals where they are the same.
http://www.brainout.net/Matt24-25ParsedR6.pdf or doc (done in MSWord 2003)
http://www.brainout.net/Luke21Meter.pdf or doc
http://www.brainout.net/Mark13MeterR.pdf or doc
So too Rev, http://www.brainout.net/Rev17Meter.pdf or doc

http://www.brainout.net/downloads now has copies, if you only want one link to keep.

It's easier to see the convergences. For Mark, since he's forecasting Byzantine history, there are many intra-doc links so you can see what rulers he marks. Uncanny how the Blepw/horaw instances EACH TIME mark someone's death.

See what you think.
Post Posted: 27 Feb 2017, 19:45
  Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering  Reply with quote
So you're counting four I'm not counting, and not counting 6 I am counting. So you get 56 versus my 67. I'm also counting the apokriteis, because they seven and are pregnant judgment preambles. So that's the diff: 9 apok + 6 amen.

You need both verbs and nouns. In verse order, the keywords alternate into precis sentences, effectively saying 'Answering (with juridical rule), Christ Believe See Sign (of His) Coming Answering See Jesus Christ See Christ the Sign' etc. I put the keywords in verse order in the Notes section of the Matt24-25 pdf (link below). Pretty amazing.

I don't count idou cuz it's an adverb. Only verbs and nouns. Not counting semeion but maybe should. If I do, all three occurrences are before v.47, and the result is still Matt25:11ab as center (total 70 is meaningful, so the 35-36th would be center). So maybe should count it, but the center result doesn't much change, drat! Paired center now starts with the prolife movement, Matt25:10, ends at Matt25:11a.

I updated http://www.brainout.net/Matt24-25ParsedR6.pdf accordingly, adding semeion.

older post is below.
====================
Do the 42 you counted, all seven to each other? Example, does 2nd Iesous seven to the first? Then seven to parousias? If they don't, then either the count is wrong or it's not intended as an anaphora, and there MUST be at least a pair of them.

Do the Basileus refs seven to each other (I get the distance at 210, so yes)?
Do the ho christos refs seven to each other (I get the distance of 504, so yes)?
Adding these makes the kurios center later and later. Adding these 4 to the 23 I have (including numphios, in verse order, count every occurrence even if repeated in the verse), makes the center Matt25:20.

Adding ho Iesous, seven to each other at 154-7.

So now the total becomes 29 (23 plus the six you found). So then 14 left and 14 right means (in verse order) the 15th occurrence, Matt25:18.

Including parousia as a synonym, then 10 more means 39. In verse order, then the 20th occurrence puts us back at the second of the pair in Matt25:11, which is our own 2017 (yikes).

But in no event do the other anaphora occurrences converge with them. The center of the prophecy is where they converge, which brings us back to amen legw humin, which has six occurrences, so must be a pair to center, which is between English Reformation (24:47) and (ulp) our Matt25:12. The only items not converging are parousia, and the above basileus/christos refs, tho they may be 'spokes' out from the convergences, I'm not sure.

Not sure to onomati mou is meant to be an anaphora either, since it's a fake claim in His name, but not Him, tho the ho christos refs might seven. It does in Mark.

I'd leave out all the pronouns, autos, su, me, etc. And why did you inclulde kleptis, since that's a thief?

If there's only one occurrence (like poimen) then it's not an anaphora, which by definition, repeats.

There are several centers to plot. One per keyword, its own center. Then the center for the sum of all the synonyms. The real center is where they all converge.

Here's an example (the big red box section), but it doesn't take into account your additions yet. http://www.brainout.net/Matt24-25Center.jpg .

I can't put a large jpg in here, sorry.
Post Posted: 19 Feb 2017, 19:51
  Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering  Reply with quote
Here is what I hope is a complete list of synonymal nouns used for our Lord in Matt 24-25. The synonyms are numbered, but I also included other phrases and terms that do not represent Christ. I'm still working on the list, so it might grow a bit more.


1) ὁ Ἰησοῦς 24:1

2) βλέπετε 24:2b

ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν 24:2c

3)τὸ σημεῖον 24:3d

4) τῆς σῆς παρουσίας 24:3d

5) ὁ Ἰησοῦς 24:4

6) Βλέπετε 24:4b

τῷ ὀνόματί μου 24:5a

7) ὁ χριστός 24:5b

8) ὁρᾶτε 24:6

τὸ ὄνομά μου 24:9c

9) ἴδητε 24:15

10) ὁ χριστός 24:23

11) σημεῖα 24:24a

12) ἡ παρουσία τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου 24:27b

13) σημεῖον 24:30a

14) τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου 24:30a

15) ὄψονται 24:30c

16) τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου 24:30c

17) ἴδητε 24:33

ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι 24:34

18) ὁυἱός 24:36c

19) ἡ παρουσία τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου 24:37b

20) ἡ παρουσία τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου 24:39b

21) ὁ κύριος 24:42a

22) ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου 24:44

23) ὁ κύριος 24:45a

24) ὁ κύριος 24:46

ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι 24:47a

25) ὁ κύριος 24:48

26) ὁ κύριος 24:50

27) τοῦ νυμφίου 25:1b

28) τοῦ νυμφίου 25:5a

29) Ἰδοὺ 25:6

30) ὁ νυμφίος 25:6

31) ὁ νυμφίος 25:10a

32) κύριε 25:11

33) κύριε 25:11

ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν 25:12b

34) ἄνθρωπος 25:14

35) τοῦ κυρίου 25:18

36) ὁ κύριος 25:19

37) κύριε 25:20b

38) ἴδε 25:20b

39) ὁ κύριος 25:21

40) τοῦ κυρίου 25:21b

41) κύριε 25:22a

42) ἴδε 25:22b

43) ὁ κύριος 25:23a

44) τοῦ κυρίου 25:23b

45) κύριε 25:24b

46) ἄνθρωπος 25:24b

47) ὁ κύριος 25:26a

48) ὁυἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου 25:31a

49) ὁ βασιλεὺς 25:34a

50) κύριε 25:37b

51) εἴδομεν 25:37b

52) εἴδομεν 25:38

53) εἴδομεν 25:39

54) ὁ βασιλεὺς 25:40a

ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν 25:40b

αἰώνιον 25:41b

55) κύριε 25:44a

56) εἴδομεν 25:44b

ἀμὴν λέγω ὑμῖν 25:45b

αἰώνιον 25:46

αἰώνιον 25:46
Post Posted: 18 Feb 2017, 22:00
  Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering  Reply with quote
Yeah, could be. I forgot to include the Iesous and Christos references as synonymal with all those kurios and numphios, to find the center. Am doing it with Mark right now, but my brain keeps going out.

The idea is to first sum all the synonymal occurrences, then find its middle. Say there are 11. Then 6 is the middle, so that 5 is on either side. But when the number is even, you have to PAIR to get even on either side. Yeah, so Mark knows that, and did that in Mark 13:21 to make it easy to find. But v.20 has to be paired too, since the sum of the synonyms in Mark for Lord/Christ/son ends up being 8. Clever way to stress the HU.

How that same thing works in Matt, I don't yet know. Maybe you'll find it.

Point is, the meaning of Matt25:12 is much more severe than I'd thought. Sorry!
Post Posted: 18 Feb 2017, 14:29
  Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering  Reply with quote
I don't know yet, but the 1050 starts with "and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory". That is a bold way to start a new 1050. Then it ends with our Lord's reply to the foolish: ὁ δὲ ἀποκριθεὶς εἶπεν. That is dramatic.

Then after the Lord finishes the discipline, its like a type of Millennium with thirds spiritual.
Post Posted: 18 Feb 2017, 07:33
  Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering  Reply with quote
I don't know. Bible does run embedded 70's, 490s, 1050s, not merely the qualifying ones.

Qualifying ones are contiguous, every 490 years (no interrupting 70s) someone must spiritually mature enough to renew the next 490, wash rinse repeat.

Same for the 1050. The begats in Gen5, 7, 11 plot this out, so when you map the years, you see Enoch was born just when the 490 signified by Seth's birth, ran out. Noah's 490 ran out so Abraham had to mature 54 years early (and did).

Even so, Moses in Gen 1 and Psalm 90 makes a point about writing 1050 from the Flood, which isn't a historical or qualifying 1050. Christ died the 980th anniversary of the Temple had it not been razed, and the 1470th anniversary of the original Exodus. So there are other 490 trackings. We know of other 70 trackings from Jeremiah 25 and 29.

So what would your numbers be tracking? Dunno, but it's hard to believe the value is coincidental.

Then again, maybe the time plays back to some Biblical date in the past. Like, 1050 flood, tho I can't find any yet.
Post Posted: 18 Feb 2017, 07:26
  Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering  Reply with quote
Now, 950 is just after κόψονται πᾶσαι αἱ φυλαὶ τῆς γῆς καὶ. If you add 950+560=1510 which is just after μακάριος.


.....and, 1510+490=2000, terminating with ὁ δὲ ἀποκριθεὶς εἶπεν which ends the year 2030 AD.


So we are going to end a hidden 560+483+7 of some kind?
Post Posted: 18 Feb 2017, 06:55
  Post subject:  Re: Updated version 6 for 'prophetic center', download link within this post.  Reply with quote
Update on the meter. I'm trying to find the prophetic historical-trend 'center', and thought it was simply the English Reformation, since that was the third amen legw humin. But I miscalculated it. There are six occurrences, so the 'middle' is not 3, but 3-4, so there are two on either side.

So Christ via Matthew is saying the nexus of history STARTED with the English Reformation, but that 'center' doesn't END until (gulp).. the end of Matt25:12.

Here's the link for the latest version: http://www.brainout.net/Matt24-25ParsedR6.pdf . Am still working on the doc, so I don't want to upload it yet.

Now you'll find intra-doc links. Click on the 'Notes' link, and you'll see there two center maps of the verses: first one is in anaphora order (in order of first appearance in the text), and the second is in verse order (in order of actual appearance of all references in the text).

I missed a couple in prior versions, so this count is more accurate.

First, you go by anaphora. How many occurrences? If say seven, then the fourth one is center for that anaphora. So those are shaded in the first set of links in the Notes. But then you also count the total number of occurrences and then find the center of it (i.e., the 24th occurrence is center, as the total occurrences including same-verse occurrences, is 47). The link listings make it easy to count.

The goal is to find overlap, a kind of 'nest' which contains ALL the types of anaphora sandwiched within the bookends of one anaphora. Right now, that seems to be the same amen legw humin running from Matt24:47-25:12. But parousia doesn't occur within that 'nest'. All the others, do. So I wonder if that's the real center.

Am still trying to figure it out.

Point is, like Day of the Lord and Greek drama, to find the nexus of the'play' of history, into which all prior is purposed, and out from which all results flow. That's how Revelation is written, that's how Paul did his epainon anaphora (centering on Constantine) in Ephesians, so I bet he got it from Matt.

Mark's doing the same thing, but with only three anaphora, so the centers might be easier to map. But those will be for the Byzantine Empire, not global. Matthew's, is global.

I don't know if Luke uses the anaphora nests. Paul did, so maybe Luke didn't. Have yet to test Luke.
Post Posted: 18 Feb 2017, 02:14
  Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering  Reply with quote
FANTASTIC. This really helps, thank you!
Post Posted: 06 Feb 2017, 13:27
  Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering  Reply with quote
I was looking online to see if there were more Christian organizations that recognized life at birth, and I found something noteworthy.

Quote:
In the parable of the Wise vs. the Foolish Virgins, Jesus Christ Himself tells us that fully half of Christendom will not have enough of the Holy Spirit in them [oil in their lamps] to meet the Bridegroom [Christ] when He has been late for the wedding.


Link

I was really just skimming through their page for some more Bible verses to debunk the "pro-life" propaganda, and that really caught my eye, since it ties to the meter and our current political situation.
Post Posted: 06 Feb 2017, 06:38
  Post subject:  Re: Version 6 updated with handy anaphora centering links.  Reply with quote
Okay, version 6 of the Matt24-25 meter is up, and it's much easier to follow, too. Total is now 3213, which is the lowest the total can be. The more I vet it, the more it makes sense, so when Anonynomenon did it at 3213, he got the right total first.

That total is more right, cuz
3213+30=3243 AD +
4106 (converter to YOW from our BC/AD, original planned Bday for Christ had Temple/David been on time) =
7349 one year SHY of 7350, which is 1050 x 7. Has to be deliberate, right?

Link: http://www.brainout.net/Matt24-25ParsedR6temp.pdf

CHANGES are highlighted in yucky green. I won't upload the doc version yet. Still vetting the dipthongs. It's due to the dipthongs and a few of the variants which I mislisted, that the seven syllables had to be subtracted. I strongly suspect any further changes will be self-cancelling, so if you see a syllable needing to be cut, there's somewhere near by one which is under counted.

But YOU decide.
Post Posted: 04 Feb 2017, 03:11
  Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering  Reply with quote
Wow, what a timesaver! MS Word lets you search on the Greek letters. Dunno if Adobe will, maybe. Thing is, to paint them first then use Find.
Post Posted: 03 Feb 2017, 02:14
  Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering  Reply with quote
Okay, I think I got the themes now.

Christ plays Talmudic 7000 cuz he dies 4136 (which you round to 4137 to make the new total seven at 7357 by the end of the next 3220). Presumably that includes the Mill, but since it doesn't evenly end, you can't call it a true final literal calendar, just a map of the next 3220 years.

Luke then maps only a pre-post-Church 1050, to show the 1050 CIVILIZATION TREND. It's literal history, which you then use after the 1050 to know how to read the next 2 1050's in Matt. So a 1050 always ends in some kind of crusading, mass migration, etc. Ours ends 2130.

Paul then maps a 490, again same style as Luke, but only for the 490, to show how Church becomes apostate and how that affects the quality of the civilization. So Church apostatizes, life turns bad, then God cleans house during the intervening 70, and the 'Year' starts over again. So again, first literal history, but after that it becomes paradigmal.

So now we have three ways to read the Matt, Luke, Pauline text:
1. Literal for the generation getting it. So those alive 30AD would need all that text to know how to orient during their lifetimes.
2. Literal for the future generation just before Trib starts, for Matthew text. By then, they are supposed to know all the above, to know how to read the literal unfolding of the text for their own, shorter lifespans.
3. Paradigmal, to show historical trends.

So now, to Rev. Looks like Rev 6 reaffirms the trends, so its syllable counts should be interesting. Looks like a 490. Rev17 tags Ephesians 1:9 musterion to show FAKE CHURCH which Paul mapped out year by year, stressing the Constantinian takeover (I bet Rev17 tags Constantine as the trend of Fake Church, which trend will be true in the Trib as well).

The larger theme is the kidnapping of Bible, and how the few run away with it, so others can still get it; enough finally believe so it's freed up, then due to its popularity the faith politicizes, then the kidnapping begins all over again.

So now, here when the Bible even in the original mss is freely available, what kind of kidnapping trend occurs next? And when, cuz it looks like from 2062-2662, Bible is more accepted than ever before, since 1st century.

During the 1st century, there was no hierarchy, and everyone was free to get Scripture. There were occasional expulsions from an area or even from Rome, but Rome's policy was that the provinces had a right to their own religions. So after Christ died, you see a gradual increasing of politicizing Christianity, and when Constantine finally gets into power, it's CHRISTIANITY which becomes the tyrant. For awhile.

Wash rinse repeat. Each new 490's apostasy is more widespread and worse than the one prior, cuz a) Scripture is more available to more people, b) most individuals reach some maxed-out acceptance before spiritual adulthood, so go political or religious (same thing) about one's 'faith'; c) more who do not believe react against those who do more strongly, and since Bible is more available they make more arguments which center more and more on its own validity.

So each 1050 is marked by worldwide crusading of non-believers, not only believers, as this reaction progresses. That's where we are now, with Islam and others who are neither Jews nor Christians. But the Jews and Christians become more proprietary about their faiths rather than Bible too, as we're seeing now.

The English Reformation freed Bible. But now that it's freed, it needs to be disseminated, translated, studied, fought over in study.. but that always leads to politicizing and religifying. On a wider scale. So that accounts for why the US, why every country on the planet has Freedom of Religion in its constitution, why so few countries have official state religions anymore. At the same time, the arguments among the people are sharpening, though not likely will become military engagements anymore, except for what the Islamicists might do.
Post Posted: 18 Jan 2017, 01:17
  Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering  Reply with quote
Maybe. I keep wondering if John updates the Matt24-25 timeline past 3250AD.
Post Posted: 13 Jan 2017, 08:23
  Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering  Reply with quote
Im thinking about metering the first 4 seals in Revelation. Maybe it will tie in with Matt 24 since the Four Horsemen are Historical Trend regulators.
Post Posted: 13 Jan 2017, 02:57
  Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering  Reply with quote
Well, maybe it's a mix of both. And the other thing: OT timelines are sometimes dual (Ps90, Daniel 9). So what about the NT? In particular, is the Eph1:1-2 '56' a setup for a dual timeline? Luke 21 clearly brackets Matt24 to show different sevening results that are complementary. Is Paul doing that as well? Peter makes a song out of Paul; Jude, from Peter. I dunno about John yet. So what's the significance of those?

Questions, questions.
Post Posted: 11 Jan 2017, 06:42
  Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering  Reply with quote
Quote:
A. Accounting, no 'theme' in the meter, except its totals based on 490, 1050, etc. Examples are Gen1, Daniel 9, Magnificat, Matt24-25, Luke 21.

B. Balancing the accounting to the Plan of God. These have themes and are symmetrical around them: Psalm 90, Isaiah 53, Eph1.

The 'A' writers tag the 'B' material. Moses tags Ps90 in Gen1, Daniel 9 tags Psalm 90 and Isaiah 53, Mary tagged them also along with Daniel, esp. Daniel 9:24-27.


Ok, so lets look at Psalm 90 versus Gen 1. Psalm 90 provides the skeletal structure, while Gen 1 puts meat on the bones. Hence, it would make more sense for the skeletal structure (B) to bear the general theme, whereas the organic structure (A) goes into the nuances.

But as you said, that would be the opposite, if Paul tags Matt 24
Post Posted: 11 Jan 2017, 02:13
  Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering  Reply with quote
I'm still not coming up with anything definitive on 91 in Paul. Closest thing is a hypothesis that there are two basic time meter types:

A. Accounting, no 'theme' in the meter, except its totals based on 490, 1050, etc. Examples are Gen1, Daniel 9, Magnificat, Matt24-25, Luke 21.

B. Balancing the accounting to the Plan of God. These have themes and are symmetrical around them: Psalm 90, Isaiah 53, Eph1.

The 'A' writers tag the 'B' material. Moses tags Ps90 in Gen1, Daniel 9 tags Psalm 90 and Isaiah 53, Mary tagged them also along with Daniel, esp. Daniel 9:24-27.

So does Luke tag Paul? Not sure. Seems more the other way around, which goes against the hypothesis here. Paul definitely tags Matt24-25, so does Luke. Paul definitely tags Ps90, Isa53, even Dan9, also indirectly the Magnificat, but I can't see how he's tagging Luke directly.

Stumped. :?: :appleface: :cherryface: :grin:
Post Posted: 10 Jan 2017, 08:24
  Post subject:  Re: How Luke 21 SEVENS to Matt24 keywords, sample  Reply with quote
Still working on the 91, and will now hypothesize that Paul's getting it from Luke (thread here ), not Matt24. Why? Clever addition of 28+63 in Luke's two datelines equals 91, which is a play on the content of the chapter, the upcoming Tribulation.

Season of Church due to Trib not yet. Christ was supposed to be 91 when Trib began, had there been no Church. So it's the season of Church, not the Season of the Last Seven Daniel 9:27 years.

Another significance to 91 I didn't spot before: Chanukah is always the 85th day after autumnal equinox. 25 Chislev is the 85th day at sundown on the 84th day, which is the day forecast in Haggai 2 to Zerubbabel. So now if we counted 8 days from the 24th, we get the 92nd day, but it's piggybacked on the 91st day at sundown.

Luke's playing a very particular game with his syllable counts versus Matt24, and ends up sevening more, but I'm still not sure WHAT game. So a) Luke KNOWS Matt24 sevens at each anaphora and keyword occurrence, and b) does the same (but less often), ON the Matt24 syllable counts, RELATIVE TO HIS OWN syllable counts.

Still trying to figure out Luke's handle, but look:

Quote:
Matt24:4, ending at syll 169, βλέπετε μή τις ὑμᾶς πλανήσῃ·
Luke moves it up to end at syll 112, Luke 21:8, βλέπετε μὴ πλανηθῆτε


Here's a wiki partial list of claimants, but it's slapdash, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_messiah_claimants

199 AD: Septimus Severus is in power, and the chiliasts were expecting the Millennium to begin, falsely counting from ab urbe condita (753+199), which caused problems in Rome and fostered a bit of backlash against Christians. Also then was the rise of the claim that 'bishops' were vicars of Christ, and by 217 Demetrius of Alexandria for the first time 'helps' Julius Africanus claim Peter is on a bishop's list for Rome, in part to make Origen look less important (who will then (217) be courting the Severan mothers to get them to convert to Christianity).

Raw end-to-end distance is 57, ring a bell? However, if you count from the first syll in Matt you get 160-56=104, the last syll before Luke's 'requote' begins.

At 112, the focus is Bar Kochba aftermath. Depending on who you read, the rebellion was quelled in 135 AD, 7 years prior; with Jews thereafter being forbidden to enter the city; it's renamed Aeolia Capitolina, but it's not then finished in reconstruction. Judaea becomes Syria Palestina the following year, first time the name is used.

So what's the tie? Seems like the end of the world; plague (189), burning (190), Commodus going nuts so then assassinated (192) so civil war (Year of the Five Emperors, ending with Septimus Severus). The other tie? This is the heyday of that vile anti-semite, Tertullian, who couldn't read the Bible if it bit him, https://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf03.iv.ix.xiii.html

False christ, him. Why anyone praises him I'll never fathom. The guy was a total spiritual retard.

Quote:
Matt24:32, Ἀπὸ δὲ τῆς συκῆς, sylls 1037-42.
Luke 21:20, Καὶ εἶπεν παραβολὴν αὐτοῖς· ἴδετε τὴν συκῆν, sylls 821-34.


Note the τῆς συκῆς in Matt ends 1042. Note it begins in Luke, at 832. Distance? 210!

Now, the event Luke flags with the term is the same as the ending parousia clause in Matt 24:27, παρουσία τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου· which we know is an anaphora in Matt which Luke omits. But the end of the clause in Matt is 833, sevened. So Luke's use of τὴν συκῆν EXACTLY MEETS IT IN THE MIDDLE (so one syll on either side).

Import? Well, the Matt use of fig tree exactly coincides with the takeover of Jerusalem in 1071-73 as part of the Arabs warring with Byzantium.

But 210 years prior, 863, when Luke's in the middle of his use of fig tree, thus corresponding to Matt 24:27's 833: three years after Russia raided Byzantium (860), she converts; in the very year the Moravian alphabet was invented to evangelize the Moravians, as ordered by Louis the German. Bulgaria converts, the next year.

See the tie? Arabs and Normans were then invading Byzantium too. But 210 years later, Russia would be helping. for the 1071-73 invasion was the proximate cause of the Crusades.

No doubt that earlier raid in 860 brought with it Greek mss; so now when Russia converts, she has both translation and original script, for comparison, replete with the two guys who can read both (Cyril and Methodius).
Post Posted: 06 Jan 2017, 01:58
  Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering  Reply with quote
That answer on the 91 still isn't good enough. Still piecing more stuff together.

For example, now we see Paul's theme is quite wry:
starts with Crassus, a Roman general who will later be sacked, sacking the Jerusalem tample.

Paul's endpoint is 434 AD when a sacked Roman general extracts sack money from BOTH Western and Eastern Rome as ransom for not sacking them (Aetius, see here, here, and here).

Christ's start point was when Egypt was defeated by a general, too. 30 BC, she became a province of Rome. Of course at the end of Matt25 He is the Conqueror.

Cute. Any Roman would have gotten that immediately of course. They knew their history like we know the latest sitcoms, TV series, sports or pop songs.
Post Posted: 31 Dec 2016, 08:03
  Post subject:  Re: Yep, Eph1:1-2 is metered!  Reply with quote
You did it again, Anonynomenon: yep, I see the Eph1:1-2 meter now. Verse 1, 33, same as Christ's age at death; verse 2 (standard formula which Peter and Jude use, lyrical), 23 syllables, the number of years' elapse after Christ died. So maybe this is the earliest use of non-sevening for dateline meter, rather than how John (who also uses it that way). So Paul's writing in 59 AD by our timing, since we use Varro's ab urbe condita which has net 3 too many years in it (really four, but Christ is born at the end of one of them, hence we are all stuck with saying end 4 BC).

My hangup was the insertion of the en+Place, but grammatically it's not needed. Isaiah 57:19 LXX uses the same ousin kai structure, somewhat poetic. The mss leave en Ephesw out or include it IN THE MARGIN (i.e., Vaticanus and Sinaiticus, Bibleworks has indexed those mss).. which wrecks the meter if you include it in the text. But the mss don't include it in the text. AHA.

Hi, I Paul write after Christ Died at age 33, which was 23 years after Judaea became a Roman province, which is 109 years after Crassus sacked the Temple, though due to Varro's error we have to say 112 if measuring from ab urbe condita; which error also reflects the fact Christ shoulda been 56 when I write, had He been born per the original Abrahamic schedule of 2000 years after Jacob, in 4106 after Adam's fall.

Whereupon, in v.3, Paul neatly starts with Christ's birth and then his second dateline is 112 really (but the new 56 is in its own new subsevened package of 434, playing on Daniel's 62nd week BECAUSE He died at 33, and BECAUSE He was really born 4103). So Paul just minuses 3 like we do, to start the AD clean. THAT is why it tracks so perfectly to the Roman history (then future) which we HAVE.

Added bonus: Daniel 9 left out 56 from his ending meter, using only 742 sylls (think 5x1050 minus 56, cuz there are 750 sevens in 5250). Cuz he's praying for the finish of history, knowing that all but the 56 (which is post-Messiah) can be reimbursed based on past time, just as Moses wrote in Psalm 90:16-17 (which is 56 syllables rather than 70), and just as Isaiah calc'd (using 42 not 56, as the 14 was already past Israel's deadline pre-Messiah).

PS this is why I call 56 'Vote Critical', whereas if 63 and time's up, it's Vote Short.

So what about that 91? Well, now it stands for the remaining 7 to Mill, cuz under the old AND new Schedules, Christ was supposed to be 91 when it would start. But it starts 3 years EARLIER due to Him having to be born 3 years earlier, and that in order to align with the 1st Temple starting late, 1Kings 6:1. Its own next 490 ends 30 AD, so if He's not accepted by Israel by then, He'll have to die (and will).

Golly, I've been looking for this smoking-gun proof since 2010. And all along YOU gave it, but again I was stubborn, and wouldn't LISTEN. Mea maxima culpa!

Crow sure tastes good!

I need an ambulance to restart my heart, it's overpowered with happy shock.
Post Posted: 28 Dec 2016, 00:45
  Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering  Reply with quote
PS it's not a problem that Zephaniah, written some 500+ years after David, would smoosh syllables. So in David's day maybe two syllables ne-um, but by Zeph's, a dipthong of one syllable. Just as Deut 6:4 should be pronounced SHE-MAAH, but modern Jews say SHMAAH.
Post Posted: 26 Dec 2016, 02:09
  Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering  Reply with quote
BINGO. Notice how 2Sam23:3 'answers' Psalm 1:1-3.

MERRY CHRISTMAS, huh!
Post Posted: 25 Dec 2016, 23:03
  Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering  Reply with quote
Yeah, I see it now. A righteous ruler is as a fruit bearing tree, firmly planted by the stream of God's word. Its about the work that God does through us.
Post Posted: 25 Dec 2016, 22:44
  Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering  Reply with quote
Look at the text of verse 3, for your answer. Really pretty clever. If not clear, then I'll elaborate, but I bet you'll have a bigger enjoyment if I ask you go ask God and guess...

HINT: compare the text of Psalm 1 to the same 91 here.
Post Posted: 25 Dec 2016, 22:27
  Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering  Reply with quote
So what do you think is the doctrinal significance of having a 91 one at the end of verse 3, over ending in verse 5? I just need to reconcile that before I can be comfortable with either version. Cuz I really had a problem with some of my old elisions too, so I am split right down the middle.
Post Posted: 25 Dec 2016, 22:17
  Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering  Reply with quote
Okay, well if you can get 77 some other way (maybe other words have a +1 so you can still say divrei), lemme know. It has to be deliberate, and it has to be by clause.

I still suspect the 42 occurs, just not sure where. Cuz Isaiah 53 breaks 52:13-14 as 42, then 35. So maybe either it's also in Psalm 1 or 2Sam23, the meter would have to be in Isaiah, something the reader would already know. For Matthew 1 uses the 42, and Luke 3 uses the 77.

I'm so excited I can't see straight. Been looking for proof in the meter BY David for a long time.
Post Posted: 25 Dec 2016, 22:00
  Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering  Reply with quote
Ok, I got the 77 if I treat ne'um as two syllables and une'um as three, but remember, that Zephaniah seems to treat ne'um as one syllable.

And, we have to treat דִּבְרֵ֥י in verse 1 as diverei instead of divrei, in order to reach 77.

I'll have to see how the rest of the meter works before I can know for sure.

clause 1= 20
clause 2= 27
clause 3= 15
clause 4= 15

Total=77

Edit

I went back and change the meter post on 2 Sam. I got 77+14+105 now, though I don't know its really correct. Before, I had the 91 ending at verse 5 (making salvation and desire grow). It seems like a seasonal thing, like bearing fruit. I'll have to think it over.
Post Posted: 25 Dec 2016, 21:41
  Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering  Reply with quote
Okay, well I got the 91 by the end of verse 3, in part cuz I counted neum as two syllables. Got 77, the first time it sevened, in the middle of v.3, by the end of אָמַר֙ אֱלֹהֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לִ֥י דִבֶּ֖ר צ֣וּר יִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל
Post Posted: 25 Dec 2016, 20:37
  Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering  Reply with quote
K. Here is 2 Sam 23:1-7. The meter didn't break evenly at verse 3, so I just did all 7 verses. I think I got all the elisions marked, but double count behind me and let me know if its off. Also, let me know if you think it should be elided differently.

Verse 1
Quote:
20 וְאֵ֛לֶּה דִּבְרֵ֥י דָוִ֖ד הָאַֽחֲרֹנִ֑ים נְאֻ֧ם דָּוִ֣ד בֶּן־יִשַׁ֗י


Quote:
27 וּנְאֻ֤ם הַגֶּ֙בֶר֙ הֻ֣קַם עָ֔ל מְשִׁ֙יחַ֙ אֱלֹהֵ֣י יַֽעֲקֹ֔ב וּנְעִ֖ים זְמִרֹ֥ות יִשְׂרָאֵֽל׃


Verse 2
Quote:
15 ר֥וּחַ יְהוָ֖ה דִּבֶּר־בִּ֑י וּמִלָּתֹ֖ו עַל־לְשֹׁונִֽי׃


Verse 3
Quote:
15 אָמַר֙ אֱלֹהֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל לִ֥י דִבֶּ֖ר צ֣וּר יִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל


Paragraph Total: 77

Quote:
14 מֹושֵׁל֙ בָּאָדָ֔ם צַדִּ֕יק מֹושֵׁ֖ל יִרְאַ֥ת אֱלֹהִֽים׃


Paragraph Total: 14

Verse 4
Quote:
13 וּכְאֹ֥ור בֹּ֖קֶר יִזְרַח־שָׁ֑מֶשׁ בֹּ֚קֶר לֹ֣א עָבֹ֔ות


Quote:
11 מִנֹּ֥גַהּ מִמָּטָ֖ר דֶּ֥שֶׁא מֵאָֽרֶץ׃


Verse 5
Quote:
7 כִּֽי־לֹא־כֵ֥ן בֵּיתִ֖י עִם־אֵ֑ל


Quote:
16 כִּי֩ בְרִ֨ית עֹולָ֜ם שָׂ֣ם לִ֗י עֲרוּכָ֤ה בַכֹּל֙ וּשְׁמֻרָ֔ה


Quote:
13 כִּֽי־כָל־יִשְׁעִ֥י וְכָל־חֵ֖פֶץ כִּֽי־לֹ֥א יַצְמִֽיחַ׃


Verse 6
Quote:
12 וּבְלִיַּ֕עַל כְּקֹ֥וץ מֻנָ֖ד כֻּלָּ֑הַם


Quote:
7 כִּֽי־לֹ֥א בְיָ֖ד יִקָּֽחוּ׃


Verse 7
Quote:
15 וְאִישׁ֙ יִגַּ֣ע בָּהֶ֔ם יִמָּלֵ֥א בַרְזֶ֖ל וְעֵ֣ץ חֲנִ֑ית


Quote:
11 וּבָאֵ֕שׁ שָׂרֹ֥וף יִשָּׂרְפ֖וּ בַּשָּֽׁבֶת׃ פ


Paragraph Total: 105
Sum Total=196
Post Posted: 25 Dec 2016, 18:35
  Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering  Reply with quote
Okay, so the datelines are 14 AND 28. Doesn't matter the meter doesn't suit our verse names. Sum is 42. Have to think over what that means. For sure Psalm 1 isn't the earliest Psalm (which we know, cuz Psalm 90 is by Moses).

How about this idea,

I'm 42 when I write, was anointed king by Samuel 28 years ago when I was 14, have been king 12 years; 14 years from now, I will have 21 years left to live.

Not sure what the 16 references. It's not sevened, but may have to do with his offspring.

So now let's all kill ourselves. Look at the Last Words of David, 2Sam23:1-3, count the syllables there.

Happens that, at our first numphios which spans 1748-49, two metrical translations were made, one of Job and another of those same last words, the latter being 1749 and available for sale at Amazon, here: https://www.amazon.com/divided-accordin ... 1170259006

Listings of those dates are here: https://books.google.com/books?id=fZAIA ... 2&lpg=PA92

Here's a more-easily-searched and downloadable version, https://archive.org/stream/cu3192402961 ... 0_djvu.txt

So I made an 8-part subseries showing this book and the arrogant reason why the 'scholars' did NOT pay close attention to the wider purpose of the meter,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wGRQv4tP9I&list=PL1bv_xPIih3fs-vKfMgiVbt4fmi3Xs3Yf&index=61


Kill me now. Lemme know what syllable count you get in 2Sam23:1-3, cuz it's our smoking gun, been looking for this kind of thing since 2004-2005 when I learned David died at age 77 from 1Kings 6:1.
Post Posted: 25 Dec 2016, 14:41
  Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering  Reply with quote
Wow, you just made my Christmas. I don't know if there are variances in the Hebrew of Psalm 1, but in Psa 1:1a, I get 14 syl, and Psa 1:1b-2a I get 28 syl.


[ אַ֥שְֽׁרֵי־הָאִ֗ישׁ אֲשֶׁ֤ר ׀ לֹ֥א הָלַךְ֮ בַּעֲצַ֪ת רְשָׁ֫עִ֥ים =14 ]


[ וּבְדֶ֣רֶךְ חַ֭טָּאִים לֹ֥א עָמָ֑ד וּבְמֹושַׁ֥ב לֵ֝צִ֗ים לֹ֣א יָשָֽׁב כִּ֤י אִ֥ם בְּתֹורַ֥ת יְהוָ֗ה חֶ֫פְצֹ֥ו=28]

Then I get a 49 in Psa 1:2b-3, so a sum total of 91 (seasonal pun).


[ וּֽבְתֹורָתֹ֥ו יֶהְגֶּ֗ה יֹומָ֥ם וָלָֽיְלָה׃ = 12 ]


(12 hour days/nights)


[ וְֽהָיָ֗ה כְּעֵץ֮ שָׁת֪וּל עַֽל־פַּלְגֵ֫י מָ֥יִם אֲשֶׁ֤ר פִּרְיֹ֨ו ׀ יִתֵּ֬ן בְּעִתֹּ֗ו = 21]

(12+21=33 Christ baring fruit in season)


[ וְעָלֵ֥הוּ לֹֽא־יִבֹּ֑ול וְכֹ֖ל אֲשֶׁר־יַעֲשֶׂ֣ה יַצְלִֽיחַ׃=16]


14+28+(12+21)+16=91
Post Posted: 24 Dec 2016, 04:23
  Post subject:  Kurios distances are SEVENED. Same kurios-numphios  Reply with quote
Okay, now I'm officially creeped out. The DISTANCE from one kurios to the next, is divisible by seven. Sometimes you start the count at the beginning (including the article) and sometimes at the end, through the NEXT full occurrence, and sometimes between them.

ALSO, the count from the last kurios to the next numphios (exclusive to Matt25) is also divisible by seven, viz the last ὁ κύριος in Matt24 is at verse 50, and it runs from syll 1610-1612. Add 30 to get AD, and it's 1640 (end of the historical voting period after Christ's death 1050+490+70) and the end of the English Reformation, per historians. So then 1640-42.

First τοῦ νυμφίου ref is in Matt25:1 and ends the verse at syll 1719.
1717-1612=105, here counting BOTH FIRST SYLLABLES of each term.

Please kill me now.

:step1: ὁ κύριος in Matt24 is at verse 42, sylls 1373-1375. Stands for Wycliffe&JanHus when you add 30 to convert to our AD.

:step2: Matt24:45, sylls 1485-1487. So 1487-1375=112, 16 sevens. Stands for Zwingli, Erasmus, Luther from 1515-1517. And also, for their 'houses' of Bible translations, at least in English, based largely on what these three did ('houses' phrase is wry, huh): https://bible.org/seriespage/1-wycliffe ... -challenge

:step3: Matt24:46, sylls 1520-22. So 1522-1487=35. Stands for 1550-1552, John Knox after he got out of prison and went to England teaching, at least; could stand for Calvin, as during those years Calvin faced Geneva opposition while teaching. During these years, both were foreigners with new teaching positions, arguing for ONLY BIBLE. This is when Stephanus mss and the Geneva Bible come out, too.

:step4: Matt24:48, sylls 1581-83. Here it changes: 1583-1520 (so now includes BOTH instances), is 63. Period AD is 1611-1613. Easy to see why: 1611 was the KJV made official English translation, and it was revised each year thereafter. If you count the oddly proleptic ἐλθὼν for HIS COMING prior, then you go back to 1609 when Douhay-Rheims done (see above link).

:step5: So v.50, noted above, from syll 1610-1612, stands for 1640-1642. Its distance is more sophisticated. Historically, the 1611 KJV was developed directly from Erasmus. But Erasmus, got some of his Greek text from what Zwingli had. So now notice: 1611-28=1583, which are syllable counts, not AD years.

Or, you can count from 1610 syll back 28 and get 1582, counting the whole year before the prior ho kurios starts. Other Bibles were then printed, here's a free download of the editions, https://books.google.com/books?id=fZAIA ... 2&lpg=PA62

The 'Royal' listings are KJV Bibles, as that was the printing company authorized to print ('authorized' had to do with the publisher getting the license, and the KJV is still copyrighted to this day; publishers get around it by adding stuff to the Bible and thus publishing the same text with additions as a 'new edition').

As each print run was limited, the annual printings of the KJV were updated each time to fix prior errors. So there is nothing special about 1611 except it was the first print run.

But there was something special about the Bible publishing in 1640: it was really only part of a Bible, but was the first published in America, the Bay Psalm book.. and it was METERED. Toward the bottom of that Wiki page there's an example of Psalm 88 being metered. So, I checked versus the Hebrew we have. They didn't meter the title (Bible always does, but maybe they didn't know that).. but the Hebrew syllables in verses 1 and 2 AFTER the title, match the ENGLISH syllable counts.

A longer sample of it is in the Appendix of this book recording the initial 1640 edition, here (free download): https://books.google.com/books?id=fZAIA ... &lpg=PA177

The longer sample is hard to search for; it's on page 371 of the book, called the 'New England' edition rather than 'Bay Psalm', and begins at left-counter '28' on that page, https://books.google.com/books?id=fZAIA ... &lpg=PA371

So now compare to the Hebrew. It's clear they are counting what they think are the HEBREW SYLLABLES and then making English to FIT their counts.

Someone please kill me. I've been looking for a smoking gun like this since 2004.

Cuz 364 years after 1640, I first realized Isaiah 53 is metered, and started trying to figure out what words might be missing from the Great Isaiah scroll. You can see me do that in http://www.brainout.net/Isa53.htm . I had first learned the 1050s not by meter, but by the begats. My pastor suspected the 490 was a recurring thing, in his last two classes on Daniel, but I didn't hear them until 2008 or so, when I'd already done the Isaiah meter, which is in Youtube ( https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 4356BE4BDC ) and vimeo (final version, https://vimeo.com/channels/isaiah53 )

But that's not the first time METER was employed! If you search on 'metre', 'meeter' (Dutch spelling) and 'meter' you'll find earlier metered sections, mostly on Psalms, but guess what? JOHN KNOX metered Deut 32, Song of Moses! I can't find a pic of it, but found the listing here, Catalogue listing 738: https://books.google.com/books?id=QIdMA ... &lpg=PA143
It was printed in 1615, but Knox was long dead by then, so I don't know when he wrote it.

Or maybe the syll counts are wrong between verses 48 and 50? Or there's a shift in fiscal, or we're looking ad mid-years (so .5 on one side or the other but you can't use half a syllable so the total is one off a sevening)?

It is true that the historic importance of the KJV to newly-forming American colonies was vast. Ironic too, that if this is an intentional 28, that the KJV-onlyists YES have a prediction of their Bible.. but not in ENGLISH, lol. A prophecy they couldn't read, unless reading the inspired Greek which is CLEARLY preserved, for the syllable counts.. SEVEN.

If you look at that whole paragraph from verse 42 on, it's so wry a commentary on 1386-1703 AD, you lose breath.
Post Posted: 22 Dec 2016, 22:03
  Post subject:  Re: Anonynomenon's Matt 24 metering  Reply with quote
I'm not sure how to read the text as it might relate to the rise and fall of the Byzantine Empire, which impacted the development of the Balkans and Russia. Portal link is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Byzantine_Empire

Text seems to favor concentration on the West, not the East, and traces the parousia of Word to the West from the East. So far, none of the Eastern dates seem benchmarked by the text?
Post Posted: 20 Dec 2016, 02:02
  Post subject:  Re: Matt24-25 usage of parousias and ho huios tou anthropou  Reply with quote
By contrast, the παρουσίας references, which start in Matt24:3, seem to talk about when folks ENCOUNTER missionaries and convert. So He 'appears' to them via the missionaries, they learn the doctrines enough to convert (even if often for secular reasons or monetary gain).

    Really important: this accounts for why the distances between parousia clauses always seven. I didn't notice that when we parsed through revision 5, but I did notice that the sevening was out of place, not at the end of a paragraph as is normal in Bible meter I've found so far. So I thought I miscounted the syllables. But now that I see EVERY parousia clause is a seven-factor distant from the prior and next one, it means the distances are deliberate, no matter whether they end the paragraph textually.. or not.

    The other implication is that I didn't think to make parousia follow the YA sound, so it's always counted at four syllables. So then maybe my YA assumptions for sound on similar endings, is wrong. Will have to revisit. For how else can I explain the consistent sevening of parousia clauses I didn't want to see sevened?

    Finally, note how clever: Christ's theme throughout is you don't know when He's coming back, and He will SUDDENLY INTERRUPT when He does, and it will be OBVIOUS when He does. So, He uses the imminency of Rapture (and hence 2nd Advent, in that you can't know when Trib STARTS).. to piggyback on the sudden appearance of MISSIONARIES and BIBLE TEACHERS and BIBLE to a person/people. So that's why the parousia clauses don't come neatly at the end of a paragraph, yet seven.

    So if we've erred in counting syllables, the error is dual: one word is over counted and another, under counted. BETWEEN the sevens. Handy way to know how to audit the text and fix our elision assumptions!

That first Matt24:3 ref is by the apostles to Christ, so that's your big clue that parousia will be analogized to Word Represented. Next time the term shows up is in Matt24:27, followed by 37, 39.

Closely related and embedded, tho, is the expression ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου. which is in the above verses and Matt24:30, 44. I don't know how to interpret its embedding.

What I do know, is that Matt24:27-30 are periods of intense Viking migration and conversion, including the first time (847ff) that Bible is translated into a new alphabet for Moravia. This led to the Christianisation of the Rus, who are also a Viking related people as well as the seemingly-already-established, Slavs.

Matt24:27 covers 823 (subtract 30 for the meter benchmark) through 863; with 847, being when Louis the German conquered Moravia and then Cyril et Methodius created the alphabet for translating Vulgate into Moravian.

    Luke 21:27 maps to Matt24:26 at 780, using ho huios tou anthropou starting at Luke's syll 756 (which is divisible by 7, lol). Luke will use the phrase again in his last verse, 36, ending at 1085, which of course also sevens back to the phrase at both ends of his verse 27. Cute: 1085-7=1078, the syll count including ellipses, in Isaiah 53. So now I really suspect Matt24:32 should end at 1085, not 1082 unless Luke is adjusting for Varro's error.

    Not only that, but he creates a biting commentary on how the believers were NOT listening to Christ. Cuz, the Daniel 7:13 meaning is not only savior, but Judge...

    Match the syllables to each other as you read.

    Matt24:26 sylls 751-780
    ἰδοὺ προείρηκα ὑμῖν. 8 758
    26 ἐὰν οὖν εἴπωσιν ὑμῖν· 8 766
    ἰδοὺ ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ ἐστίν, μὴ ἐξέλθητε 14 780

    Luke 21:27 sylls 751-780
    [kai] τότε ὄψονται τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἐρχόμενον ἐν νεφέλῃ μετὰ δυνάμεως καὶ δόξης πολλῆς. 31 780

    Which is a concatenation of what Christ says in Matt 24:30. QUOTING MATT. So bookends EARLIER to 24:26.

    That's not all. Matt24:32, sylls 1072-1082 read
    γινώσκετε ὅτι ἐγγὺς τὸ θέρος
    Luke 1:36, end, same sylls+3, read
    καὶ σταθῆναι ἔμπροσθεν τοῦ υἱοῦ τοῦ ἀνθρώπου.

    Cute, huh.

Matt24:30 covers 945 to 1015, when most of the stuff I've read on Viking conversions, occurs. This is the period of Erik the Red; 988 is called 'the baptism of the Rus'. This is deemed start of Kievian Rus as a polity, tho its people started converting in the Matt24:27 period as a result of the Bible being in a language they could read. It is also a period of extensive monastic reform that had significant teaching and economic impact wherever it expanded.

What's distinctive of this period is the independence from the Church. Given the new monastic separation (beholding only to the Pope, which meant autonomous), it's easy to see how that independent style would attract plunder, yet also endear the Vikings, whose political culture was much more familial so independent so federal, therefore the idea of some all-ruling pope never caught on. How ironic.

Then again, if you wanted Bible but didn't like the Papist trappings, retreat to a monastery was THE ONLY way to get what you wanted.

But the later ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου refs don't seem to focus on them, but back to Europe?

Matt24:37 spans 1229-1255, a period of those little Paris/Italy Bibles being so popularly used by the many itinerant friars of the Dominicans and Franciscans of the period, as noted in DeHamel's book. People were well enough acquainted with Bible to misread Daniel 12 on the 1260, so they were expecting the world to end in that YEAR.

One big reason they WERE acquainted, was the sack of Constantinople in 1204; its massive library was sacked and taken back to Rome, who with Paris had long exchanged Bible mss between their universities. So the mss the East had, came to the West, who ransacked the Greeks passim ever since the Great Schism of 1054.

With the Mongol hordes still invading Russia and Eastern Europe (finally stopped at Warsaw I think, in 1294), and with the last Crusades going on (which stopped in the Middle East in 1291), it's easy to see how they would misinterpret Daniel 12. But the point is, they were familiar enough with the Bible TO misread it. As DeHamel records, they lost interest in Bible when the expected 2nd coming (clever, given how 37b reads) .. didn't happen. So they didn't want Christ His Word, but a thrill. Picture Bibles were also developed during that time, to help speed comprehension, and fell out of vogue after 1260 (ibid).

Next, is Matt24:39, which spans from 1305-1339, and is a warning. 1315-1317 was the Great Famine period, which (see wry context of the verse re Noah) was caused by TOO MUCH RAIN. The harvests wouldn't dry, so no fodder for animals nor food for man. It would keep on repeating in short bursts from this time onward. The Medieval Warm Period was ending also, meaning it was now too cold for crops to grow well, too. Leviticus 26, Deut28 warnings, then. For folks HAD those small Bibles, KNEW enough of what was in them to MISREAD Daniel 12.. and didn't grow spiritually. They had from 1170 when those Bibles first started coming out of Paris and going to the intinerant monks, so that's 4 generations...

Matt24:44 could be broken up into clauses, but I didn't. Spans 1463-1495. It's a closing lesson: for this reason you should LEARN, make ready: as you can't calculate the hour, when the Son of Man comes.

So did they? No. They turned the crusades inward from 1291 onward, picking rich pockets of Jews or others by calling them heretics. The Popes offered indulgences now for anyone who went after someone deemed a heretic, INSIDE one's country, or in a neighbor's. But by this time we had Gutenberg's method of printing, which rapidly became popular for all books; prior, we had the Italian Renaissance which began when Hus was just learning about Wycliffe, thus famous, his translations out and hoarded, as were Wycliffe's; there were a few other translations. The mss had come out a bit owing to the folks fleeing from the Middle East from the Crusades, especially in 1204 when the Latin Crusaders sacked Constantinople. So 'making ready' was thus done by some, and the idea of rejecting the RCC was widespread by many.

Meanwhile, Constantinople had been definitively ended as a 'Christian' location, its Byzantine Empire by then shrunk to a few small spaces; now, since 1453 (same year as Gutenberg started his first printing but not yet published), the erstwhile New Rome (name Constantine gave it).. was finally under the Ottomans. So only the WEST remained, as a major place you could find Bible.

But the West, was in various stages of war, both civil and international. 1469 saw the renewal of who's-the-rightful-king-of-France, so the Hundred Years' war which allegedly started in 1337, didn't end 100 years later. You had rival popes, which started in the West really a bit before the official 1378 'Great (or 'Western') Schism', between Avignon and Rome. You had civil wars within the countries owing to these greater competitions, with groups of people picking one side or the other. Of course, the Black Death would resurface again and again in smaller sections, notably leaving OUT, most of Poland, Milan, Pyrenees.

But you also had renewed interest in the Hebrew, Greek, and translations. Lorenzo Valla of Italy, shortly before he died, compiled Greek mss he called Collatio Novo Testamenti, in it seems 1442, which Erasmus would later use. The Jews were expelled from England in 1290, so went to the continent where they had successive expulsions from France (of course, Henry called himself King of Normandy even then), in 1305 and following. So the Jews went to Spain and Portugal, who finally threw off the Arab yoke and shortly thereafter expelled the Jews too. But meanwhile, the Jews brought their OT in Hebrew with them, and so the West had access. After each expulsion, the area expelling plunged into internal 'crusades', civil war, and declined economically. The Jews finally found a more permanent home in Poland and Milan, just in time for the Black Death. So one could vote with his feet to find Bible.

Missionary activity went seaward during this time. Gold and God, in that order. So in that sense, the prior meanings we saw for the Vikings of ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου, but this time in Matt24:44.. now continue with the mostly Spanish and Portuguese, sailing outward.

So are you surprised that v.44's ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ends at syll 1462 aka 1492 AD? In 1492, Columbo sailed the ocean blue.. maybe with a newly-minted copy of the Hebrew text, just then being published in Lisbon and Italy.

Oh: and the syll distance between the NEXT syll and the syll just BEFORE the ho kurios in Matt24:45 is (drum roll please).. 21! Divisible by seven! And of course THAT ho kurios is.. the Reformation.

So now we see two key facts relative to historical prosperity/adversity:

1. If you want Bible, you want to favor the Jews, if only for the selfish reason they have at least initially, more knowledge of the Hebrew.

2. If you want Bible, you want to learn to read. In fact, most folks even through the 20th century learned how to read, from learning Bible (i.e., even in the Dust Bowl they learned to read from KJV and from Sears Catalogue).

So notice: if you want Bible, you find someone who has one and can read it, and essentially contract with them formally or informally, to learn to read it yourself. That makes you a better worker, as you're motivated; that makes you a more valuable employee especially once you learn to read; so you get promoted. God promotes what you're attached to, so you can get the Word (seek ye first the Kingdom of God), so what you're attached to, is prospered even if they are not as interested.

Multiply that over a whole region, and it's easy to plot how increase in Bible interest resulted in more monks, missionaries, Bibles and better treatment of the Jews, hence agriculture and other economic and political increasing prosperity; how when the Jews are expelled, there is a contravening (tho maybe not universal) hostility to Bible.

Just as Lev26, Deut 28 say. In the patterns we know from history, which so far, Christ wryly annotates by year.

The Son of Man title used, has often been mistaken to mean only 'prophet'. It should be translated son of ADAM, cuz in Dan7:13 the Hebrew is different, son of man (Aramaic bar enosh, generic nature).

Son of Adam term is literal, but comes to mean 'prophet', as the prophets were all fallen like Adam was. First obvious use of it this way, is in Ezekiel 2:1, though prior uses of Ben Adam are many. It's the exclusive title used for Ezekiel throughout his book. Noteworthy is Eze40:4, where Christ in theophany is called ISH in the Hebrew. But not Adam. And of course, Eze40 is about the Millennial Temple, and Christ WILL BE AGAIN manifest as MAN then.

Interestingly enough, the last Son of Adam usage is in Daniel 8:17, with God addressing Daniel as Son of Adam. Same vocative style as used for Ezekiel, who was his younger contemporary.

So we can infer it means someONE discoursing on the Word of God.

Christ always inserts articles, ho huios tou anthropou. Two-article usage is a title, not merely monadic, same as for official calendar dates in the OT (same in Luke 1:26 versus :36). THE Son of MAN (not Adam, but the Last Adam). Really clear in the Greek versus OT, dunno why there is so much confusion.

Really boring videos demonstrating all this live in Bible, start here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKQIhhtUFbk&index=31&list=PLDA3CF01F9BA03EB9

. :vikinggirl: :vikinggirl: :vikinggirl: .

So now, back to Matt24-25 and the anaphora. Notice the interplay between amen legw humin, kurios, parousia, ho huios tou anthropou (which in Dan7:13 LXX omits the articles, just as other LXX refs do). They are meant as anaphora in some kind of causal sequence. I don't yet know how to describe it. What I do know, is that this sequence is in descending order of intensity, and is thesauretical. Notice also that numphios in Matt25, is used as a synonym for kurios, but obviously the relationship is restricted to BELIEVERS (parthenoi).

So Christ EQUATES yet RANKS His 'appearance' or 'coming' to people with the coming of His Word in the mouths of sons of men who expiate, explain, translate and transcribe it.

We'll see the most interesting interrelationships between these anaphora (term is neuter in Greek), from now on, as now we enter THE REFORMATION.
Post Posted: 16 Dec 2016, 13:44
  Post subject:  Use of Kurios as anaphora keyword in Matt24-25  Reply with quote
As for the kurios keyword reference (Christ uses specialized names for Himself in paragraphs), which run from Matt24:42-50, all these refs appear to be of BIBLE TRANSLATIONS undertaken by reformers,
thread list: https://twitter.com/Clay_Odem/status/808860924211818496

Bible editions: https://books.google.com/books?id=G6ItAAAAMAAJ (free download)
http://clausenbooks.com/bible1700.htm

The Matt25 kurios refs are POVs, with numphios maybe replacing THE Lord in Matt24. Not sure, needs more testing. Obviously can have significance of one falsely calling Lord someone NOT 'the' Lord.

Refs are in Matt25:11, 18-20, 22-24, 37, 44. The last two have JSC and GWTJ language.

IF each kurios ref means Bible disseminated via translation or mss, then there seems to be a massive upgrade coming after our generation, given the above refs. Implication is that nations outside the US and Europe, who are the centers for the mss, will then become interested in them. I do know that there are many missionary societies today who are busy translating the Bible into the tongues of small isolated groups (search on Tyndale in vimeo for their vids on this).
Post Posted: 14 Dec 2016, 17:17

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