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Topic review - David's Last Words, 2Sam23 DATELINE METER
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: David's Last Words, 2Sam23 DATELINE METER  Reply with quote
Dunno. But the 42 is a common enough meter. Not sure what I did in 2Sam23 is right, either.
Post Posted: 12 Apr 2017, 07:19
  Post subject:  Re: David's Last Words, 2Sam23 DATELINE METER  Reply with quote
After fixing Zeph 1, I noticed that he ended Samex 1 with a 12+15+15, which is the mirror image of your 15+15+12 in 2 Sam. So I guess that gives more support for your parsing and elisions. I wonder if there is a special significance for that specific number sequence?
Post Posted: 12 Apr 2017, 05:52
  Post subject:  Re: David's Last Words, 2Sam23 DATELINE METER  Reply with quote
Okay, well
דְּבַר
MUST be two syllables, minimum. Question is whether it's 3, in 2nd word of 2Sam23; the 1749 book uses two (dibre), as you'll see if you look at the jpg. I think three, but that's due to the NAME that comes from it, and the fact the verbal noun is plural, since even in the singular it must be at least two syllables, but now we have a plural suffix added.

So now you have to rethink Zeph. Really should be 12. You can't piggyback a begadpekat onto another with no vowel sound between, esp. when hard. So if two such consonants, then two syllables, minimum.

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Gramma ... tters.html
Post Posted: 12 Apr 2017, 01:03
  Post subject:  Re: David's Last Words, 2Sam23 DATELINE METER  Reply with quote
I watched the video. I can see why you elided and parsed the way you did. While watching, I started playing with that first verse some more, with alternate clause parsing. Here is what I got.

2 Sam 23:1
Clause 1:
Quote:
וְאֵ֛לֶּה דִּבְרֵ֥י דָוִ֖ד הָאַֽחֲרֹנִ֑ים
11 Syllables

We'lleh divrei Dawid, hA'acharonim.

Note that even though the syllable count is an odd number, the long 'a' in hA'acharonim can preserve the cadence. This of course means that the text must be accented according to the vowel lengths indicated by the vowel points. Also, Zephaniah opens with 11 syllables, as well.
Quote:
דְּבַר־יְהוָ֣ה ׀ אֲשֶׁ֣ר הָיָ֗ה אֶל־צְפַנְיָה֙


I compared the grammatical structure of this proposed clause to that of 1 Chronicles 23:27. I don't see why this cant stand alone as a clause, but maybe I'm parsing it incorrectly.


Clause 2:
Quote:
נְאֻ֧ם דָּוִ֣ד בֶּן־יִשַׁ֗י וּנְאֻ֤ם הַגֶּ֙בֶר֙ הֻ֣קַם עָ֔ל מְשִׁ֙יחַ֙
19 Syllables

Ne'um Dawid, ben-Yishai une'um haggever haqom 'al meshiach.

I think ne'um starts a new clause for the same reason that Zephaniah uses it for God's declaration, "ne'um Yehwah".

Furthermore, Matt 24:31a, and Mark 13:1b use 19 syllables for what seems to be a declaration or announcement. I'll have to see if 19 is consistently used that way.

Clause 3:

Quote:
אֱלֹהֵ֣י יַֽעֲקֹ֔ב וּנְעִ֖ים זְמִרֹ֥ות יִשְׂרָאֵֽל׃
12 Syllables

'lohei Ya'qov un'im zemorowth Yishra'el.

This one is pretty straightforward. "My God of Jacob, and the sweet psalmist of Israel." Twelve is the number of Israel as stated in the video.

So 11+19+12=42.

I'm only making these observations based on what I've seen in other verses and meters. I haven't even taken the time to look at Ecclesiastes again yet, so I have no idea what effect these elisions and parsing will have on that meter.

Let me know what you think. If my grammar is wrong, please let me know, cuz I'm still at an introductory level in Hebrew grammar.
Post Posted: 12 Apr 2017, 00:33
  Post subject:  Re: David's Last Words, 2Sam23 DATELINE METER  Reply with quote
Here's a video made on how one might differently parse verse 1 yet still get 42 (which the author of the 1749 book also shows for the verse (click here to see it), in his transliteration but NOT translation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eerBPgYB3yM&index=136&list=PL1bv_xPIih3fs-vKfMgiVbt4fmi3Xs3Yf
Post Posted: 11 Apr 2017, 20:10
  Post subject:  David's Last Words, 2Sam23 DATELINE METER  Reply with quote
There's actually a book on this meter, click here. But the book doesn't seem to recognize the sevening, which is very prominent in David's meter. It matters, cuz millions of dollars have been WASTED due to folks misaccounting David's age at death; whole Bible is built around this, so if you miss his birth and death and years ruled, you'll get all your Bible dates in contradiction.

I don't know why the writer of the book in 1749 (!) didn't think to chart the meter for David's age, cuz it couldn't have escaped his notice: David uses FIVE 14s in a row, which is 70 (ding ding ding) then a 7 then another 7 to equal 84. It's all poetic, with soundplay, rhythm, so why didn't the guy notice David was writing when AGE 77 not age 70 as errant Josephus had long contended and dilatory scholars long accepted?

If we would just do our homework in BIBLE, then we'd save so much money, the poor would be fed and our sheep would get proper DOCTRINE so God could justify blessing US all to get even more money. Leviticus 26 and Deuteronomy 28, baby.

Here's my homework on the dateline: http://www.brainout.net/2Sam23.pdf . It will be updated when I've time to do more work on it. See for yourself.
Post Posted: 01 Apr 2017, 10:06

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