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Topic review - Three Types Salvation
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
Well, subjunctive of purpose means something which hasn't finished yet, but is purposed and ongoing. Subjunctive has other meanings too, but in that passage it's subj of purpose.
Post Posted: 27 May 2016, 05:14
  Post subject:  Re: Born of water and spirit.  Reply with quote
Yeah, after posting that, I came across this passage.

Quote:
Ephesians 5:26 so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless

Powerful stuff.


I also noticed that both ἁγιάσῃ (might sanctify) and παραστήσῃ (might present) are both in the subjunctive mood. Doesn't that mean that it might not happen to the whole Church?
Post Posted: 27 May 2016, 04:37
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
Yes, the Colonel taught birthing fluids, often stopping to talk about the breaking of the amniotic sac. But surely water of the Word is also relevant.
Post Posted: 27 May 2016, 04:19
  Post subject:  Born of water and spirit.  Reply with quote
How did the Colonel teach John 3:5? How did he put it?
Quote:
5Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

I know most interpret the water as birthing fluids, but I don't remember if the Colonel held that position or not.

The reason I ask is because of the contrast between verses 3 and 5:

Quote:
“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.



This makes me wonder if water is a reference to salvation 2. Its one thing to see the kingdom of God, which does require salvation 1, but in order to enter the kingdom, you have to live continuously on the Word/Water (salvation 2).

So is it possible that Jesus is saying that to enter the kingdom, you must be born (out) of Doctrine and Spirit?
Post Posted: 27 May 2016, 03:58
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
Yeah, talk to hupostasis re jesus-is-savior.com . KJVO site he knows a lot about.
Post Posted: 18 May 2016, 07:06
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
Yeah, that is pretty low. There's a smear-piece on Thieme's teaching on the Blood of Christ, at jesus-is-savior.com. I remember skimming through it years ago when I first googled "R. B. Thieme Jr", just to see how popular he was. In fact, that's how I found your videos on youtube. Anyways, its just the same old song and dance, theologians screaming heresy at each other, just like the Byzantine church.
Post Posted: 18 May 2016, 06:32
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
Well, you'll hear Thieme cover it eventually. It's the doctrine on which he's the most attacked. DTS even chartered someone to write his ThD thesis on it, can you believe that. Really stupid thing, to write about whether some pastor's 'doctrine' is right. Shameful.
Post Posted: 18 May 2016, 06:10
  Post subject:  Re: Blood of Christ  Reply with quote
Quote:
Well, Isaiah 53:10 FLAT TELLS YOU that His Blood is his thinking, paying for sin: b'daato yatsdiq . So that's where the Colonel go the teaching from. So 'Blood of Christ' is the NT usage of that verse. Blood circulates in body, thoughts circulate in soul, but the soul is the real you.


I've never heard the Colonel's lessons on Isaiah. I knew about the Blood of Christ, and I knew that Christ paid for sins with thoughts, but I just never put the two concepts together. I don't know why, since the connection is so BLATANTLY OBVIOUS now, I guess I just never spent much time pondering it. Its comforting to know that the Holy Spirit is reverse engineering these concepts for me. That's what's so fascinating about Revelation, it ties the entire Bible together into one Unified Doctrine...hence the title: Ἀποκάλυψις Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ.
Post Posted: 18 May 2016, 05:22
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
Well, Isaiah 53:10 FLAT TELLS YOU that His Blood is his thinking, paying for sin: b'daato yatsdiq . So that's where the Colonel go the teaching from. So 'Blood of Christ' is the NT usage of that verse. Blood circulates in body, thoughts circulate in soul, but the soul is the real you.

So Salv 1 is JUST BELIEVE, and saved to heaven.
Salv2, get HIS THOUGHTS in you, and 1mature. I tried to explain all that in http://www.brainout.net/DDNA.htm but it's really long.
Salv3 is 1Cor15, new body. Like His body, 1John2:26-3:2.

I don't think the color for Hebrew weddings is relevant, for the terms are all Roman.
Post Posted: 18 May 2016, 05:01
  Post subject:  Washed in the Blood of the Lamb  Reply with quote
I don't think its necessarily a wedding reference, but I suppose its a possibility. What were the Hebrew wedding colors???

Anyways, another thing that has been bugging me in relation to the robes vs garments is the washing of the robes in the Blood of the Lamb (Rev 7:14). I know that the Blood of Christ is the foundation of Salvation 1, but I didn't know how it applied in Salvation 2 until now.
Quote:
Rev 7:14 they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


Lambs' blood was used to symbolize the atonement for sin, but we know that the Blood of Christ is NOT LITERAL. The Colonel made that very clear. We also know that Christ paid for our sins with His THOUGHTS.

Its just now that I realized that Chirst's thoughts are His Blood, in the same way that the Kardia refers to the mentality of the Soul. So Christ's Kardia/Heart pumped His thoughts.

Therefore, to 'wash your robe in the Blood of the Lamb' is to THINK LIKE CHRIST.

I can see now that Blood of Christ has at least two applications:

Salvation 1
: Atonement for Original Sin and Personal Sins. Allowing for regeneration of the human spirit.

Salvation 2: For 'rehabilitation of the soul'.

The question is, how does it apply to Salvation 3???


Then I thought about John 19:34.
Quote:
But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out.


So blood consists of two primary components; the cells and the plasma. The John calls it the blood (αἷμα) and water (ὕδωρ). We could then say that the concentrated of blood cells represents basic mentality, and the water represents the Word of God. Jesus had to grow up on Bible too, so His Blood (of Christ) was His thinking (αἷμα) with the Word of God (ὕδωρ).
Post Posted: 18 May 2016, 03:46
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
Well, I don't remember how Thieme commented on it, could be. Technically they are FESTIVE garments (citations in BDAG meaning #2 for leukos. So maybe ties to wedding attire?

Problem with that claim of wedding, is that Romans didn't use white for weddings. I forget what color it was, but not white.
Post Posted: 18 May 2016, 01:48
  Post subject:  Re: Garments and Robes  Reply with quote
Ok, so that explains why Rev 3:4 says, "they will walk with me in whites (pural)". That must include both garment and robe.

I was listening to the Colonel talk about the Uniforms of Honor and Glory. He didn't mention the robes, but its been bugging me for a long time.
Post Posted: 18 May 2016, 01:22
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
Well, himation is inner, stole is outer, so likely the latter distinguishes the winner. Poor didn't have stole. If you worked in the fields, you just had himation. When you dressed up, you added stole.
Post Posted: 18 May 2016, 00:37
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
What would you say is the difference between the garments (hematia) of Rev 3:5, and the robes (stolei) in Rev 6:11???

At first, I though maybe slolei was for martyrs only, but Rev 22:14 seems to imply that it is available for all winner believers.

Are they simply interchangeable terms?
Post Posted: 17 May 2016, 20:58
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
Metabolized Doctrine (aka epignosis), Thieme's term.
Post Posted: 04 May 2016, 03:56
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
So growth, but with locked-in interest rates.

What do you mean by MD? Mature Doctrine?
Post Posted: 04 May 2016, 03:48
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
Okay, since we will be like Christ, and He is free, but will be SMALLER, it's like growing with a small bank account rather than a large one. Small 'deposits' of MD daily still grow, but very slowly. That's where I differ from the Colonel, on the grounds that it's not fair to Father to hear frozen souls.
Post Posted: 04 May 2016, 03:45
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
I see what you mean. I'm used to thinking of temptation coming from the Sin Nature alone, but I didn't stop to think about Satan's fall. He didn't start off with a Sin Nature like we did.

Ok, so there is growth, but is there a way to grow your way out of spiritual poverty? Or was that a one-time shot with the Escrows awarded during temporal life?

If so, why would Escrow opportunity only be limited to temporal life?
Post Posted: 04 May 2016, 03:43
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
If there's no temptation to resist, there's no freedom. FREE not to sin. The temptations will be for the low to accept the high and vice versa, to use MD even as now. If FREE then temptation remains, but NO SIN NATURE means we won't want to sin.. freely.

Think: the elect angels are free. Never says that one cannot sin post-death, anywhere. But the problem is, sin is attractive to us, down here. Won't be, up there, just as it isn't to the angels.

I don't know about what Leaves on the Tree mean.
Post Posted: 04 May 2016, 03:13
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
Ok. So Epignosis is growth of the Kardia. But still, no testing in Eternal State since there is no temptation to resist, therefore no further reward for growth apart from daily Epignosis. So that explains WHY there is growth with no Escrow Blessings in Eternal State and WHY Escrow can be awarded in TEMPORAL LIFE only.

So does that mean that the Leaves of the Tree of Life represent Epignosis???
Post Posted: 04 May 2016, 03:05
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
Epignosis IS growth. 'Testing' is living ON what you learned. It's still growth, either way, and the eternal state is FREE, so then plenty of opportunity to grow, still.
Post Posted: 04 May 2016, 02:36
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
But what Jeremiah 31 and Hebrew 8&10 are talking about is KNOWLEDGE of God, which the Colonel called EPIGNOSIS. According to him, Epignosis alone does not guarantee growth. The Epignosis must be applied during testing for growth to occur. So in order for growth to occur during the Eternal State, there would have to be SOME FORM of testing. I don't think that is the case.
Post Posted: 04 May 2016, 02:27
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
Okay, but escrow blessings don't preclude spiritual growth post-death, especially given the verses I just gave you in Jeremiah and Hebrews.
Post Posted: 04 May 2016, 02:10
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
That's exactly what I mean. You can only be tested in temporal life, so Escrow can only be awarded pre-death.
Post Posted: 04 May 2016, 01:51
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
Escrow blessings have to be awarded pre-death.
Post Posted: 04 May 2016, 01:45
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
Well, if I understood the Colonel correctly, somewhere in his study of Thiatyra, he mentioned that there will be no temptation to resist during the Eternal State, therefore no testing of our application of Doctrine. If you can't be tested, then your performance cannot be evaluated to qualify for Escrow Blessings. So maybe there will be growth, but no way to test that growth, no pressure testing.
Post Posted: 04 May 2016, 01:26
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
Tested? See no reason for testing. It's kinda like what the Colonel said about ESCROW BLESSINGS. Those who didn't mature, don't get them. Biggest blessing is KNOWING GOD. So then they will know a little, least category, Jer 31:31-34 quoted as bookends in Heb 8:8-12 through 10:15-17. So it's still a kind of 'separation', much like poor versus rich.
Post Posted: 03 May 2016, 22:34
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
The Soul can not cease to exist. When we think of death, we tend to think of annihilation, but the Biblical definition of Death doesn't seem to be annihilation, but separation. Our thinking can be separated from God. In that sense, the soul can die, as in separation.

In Greek, the soul is called the Psuche/Psyche.

In the case of the non-believer, there is total Psychological/Psuche Death (total separation from God's thinking).

In the case of the cosmic believer, its more like Psychological/Psuche Atrophy (which requires a continuous Rx for the leaves of the Tree of Life).

If all souls are growing at least at a minimal rate, then the poor will still be poor in comparison to the rich. Economic inflation. Plus, how will Epignosis be tested in the Eternal State?
Post Posted: 03 May 2016, 07:18
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
But the soul cannot die, and God is not benefitted by eternally-ignorant believers. They would naturally have SMALL souls, since only MD can increase soul size, but wouldn't that then mean a VERY SLOW yet constantly-increasing GROWTH in the eternal state? So all thoughts are pleasing to God, even if small and stunted, but increasing?

Colonel speculated that once you die, you're spiritually frozen. I guess I'm saying that doesn't sound right. He never turned that speculation into a dogma or doctrine, either.
Post Posted: 03 May 2016, 06:49
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
Long post.

I've been thinking a lot about this topic lately. I have some ideas, but I can't seem to pull it all together. I agree, X+Y+Z depicts all Three Salvations.

My understanding of Matt 25:12-13 in the most literal sense is that Jesus is talking specifically about believers on the earth at the Second Advent. So the wise who are taken in, are entering the Wedding, while the foolish are left out. If these people are still flesh and blood at Christ's return, then I would say that they still have the whole Millennium as an opportunity to grow.

Quote:
Z stands for eternity, but even then, people need to be 'saved' from their ignorance, daily

This is what I categorize as INJURY BY SECOND DEATH. Death means nothing more than separation. If physical, then death is separation from body. If spiritual, then human spirit is separated from God. HOWEVER, I do believe there is also soul death, which is separation from God's THINKING. So those who need 'salvation from eternal ignorance' are INJURED BY SECOND DEATH in contrast to non-believers who experience the FULL EXTENT OF SECOND DEATH (they are completely separated in the Lake of Fire).

Think about the Tree of Life: The Fruit vs the Leaves. The Tree of Life represents Doctrine, and the Fruit represents maximum capacity for happiness (as the Colonel puts it). So what are the Leaves? Maybe the leaves are the means of the daily salvation of the ignorant. They don't have capacity for the Fruit, so they get to chew on the leaves like apes....as an on going therapy to heal their INJURY.

So basically, I believe the Outer Darkness/Weeping and Gnashing is used both literally and figuratively to describe a state of existence that has both temporary and eternal effects.
Post Posted: 03 May 2016, 05:07
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
BTW, just got an idea. Remember the Colonel's X+Y+Z? Those are the three types. but it's really more than that. Z stands for eternity, but even then, people need to be 'saved' from their ignorance, daily. So every day is a drama, something to be learned, a success story that ever escalates and never ends. That's why the unending 'crosses' of those more-mature, getting to help the lesser; and the lesser, bearing out the learning process.

Also, thinking about how Matt24:13's 'I don't know you' has no weeping and gnashing clause. Either it's temporal (life down here only), or if eternal, depicts distance in heaven. Which goes back to, the weeping thread, here.
Post Posted: 03 May 2016, 04:14
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
Well, you're already into doctrine, so maybe only view the first video, which gives the corrected translation. For you already 'got it' about John 10:34, so the only missing piece for you, is the Psalm 82:1 corr trans in Hebrew (which first video displays live in Bibleworks). You'll get it fast.

I always make long videos and writeups for those not already aware of the doctrines, or for those who are aware of the text, but didn't THINK ABOUT IT in the way shown. All my stuff is only for brainstorming, never selling.
Post Posted: 26 Apr 2016, 18:25
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
Cool. I'll have to take some time to go through it. Its just so exciting how you can reread something that meant one thing to you, and then suddenly see a whole new message tying into so many doctrines.
Post Posted: 26 Apr 2016, 15:14
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
Yeppers. Did a whole channel on that, https://vimeo.com/channels/psalm82
Post Posted: 26 Apr 2016, 06:55
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
My attention was led to Psalm 82 today, and I thought of this thread.

Quote:
1God takes His stand in His own congregation;
He judges in the midst of the rulers.
2How long will you judge unjustly
And show partiality to the wicked?......

6 I said, “You are gods,
And all of you are sons of the Most High.

7 “Nevertheless you will die like men
And fall like any one of the princes.”


My initial assumption is that believers are the one's called gods and sons of the Most High, since we are born again in Christ, and He dwells within us (along with Father and HS). Yet when we get to verse 7, people like to disassociate from the application, by saying that 'dying like men and falling like princes' is a reference to non-believers only.

Here is my point. If believers are called gods and sons of the Most High, then believers can 'die like men and fall like princes' too. I'm not talking about a loss of salvation, but a failure to rehabilitate the soul with Bible, and an abortion of royalty.

Therefore, failing to grow up is a form of death in eternity. You will still have your soul and salvation, but the mental/personal relationship with God will be dead, or in a vegetative state.

On the flip side, Jesus did quote Psalm 82:6 in John 10:34 and applied it to the Jews who rejected Him, therefore, it must have application for non-believers too....specifically for Israel. As if Jesus were implying, 'you are supposed to be gods, but because you don't believe, you will die like men.'
Post Posted: 26 Apr 2016, 06:24
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
You're gonna need to talk with God about the red-ringed stuff I highlighted in your quote below. Or, wait until RBT covers them and then talk with God.

All sin is addictive. It's STOPPING the use of 1John1:9, not some magical quality in particular sins, which makes 1John5:16 happen. Again, talk to God about this, for my way of explaining it might not be what you need to see.

Anonynomenon wrote:
brainout wrote:
Well, let's take this one step at a time. Define 'soiled garments'.



All unrighteousness is sin (1John 5:17).

Human righteousness are filthy garments (Isaiah 64:6)

Upon salvation, we recieve clean garments (Zech 3), but believers can still soil them again (Rev 3:4).

Therefore we must clean our garments of ALL URIGHTEOUSNESS with 1John 1:9.

We must keep our garments washed in the Blood of Christ (Rev 22:14) to enter New Jerusalem.
Rev 22:15 lists some sins that will keep you out of New Jerusalem, so I guess that is what soils garments.
Some sins lead to death, some don't (1John 5:17).

The sins that lead to death pollute the mind and cause addiction to those sins, so consistent use of 1John 1:9 and continuous study is needed to break the addiction and fill the mind with doctrine. If the addiction is not broken, then chances are death will come while the cosmic believer is unprepared, and they will die in a state of carnality, with filthy garments.
Post Posted: 07 Feb 2016, 19:47
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
brainout wrote:
Well, let's take this one step at a time. Define 'soiled garments'.



All unrighteousness is sin (1John 5:17).

Human righteousness are filthy garments (Isaiah 64:6)

Upon salvation, we recieve clean garments (Zech 3), but believers can still soil them again (Rev 3:4).

Therefore we must clean our garments of ALL URIGHTEOUSNESS with 1John 1:9.

We must keep our garments washed in the Blood of Christ (Rev 22:14) to enter New Jerusalem.

Rev 22:15 lists some sins that will keep you out of New Jerusalem, so I guess that is what soils garments.

Some sins lead to death, some don't (1John 5:17).

The sins that lead to death pollute the mind and cause addiction to those sins, so consistent use of 1John 1:9 and continuous study is needed to break the addiction and fill the mind with doctrine. If the addiction is not broken, then chances are death will come while the cosmic believer is unprepared, and they will die in a state of carnality, with filthy garments.
Post Posted: 06 Feb 2016, 21:39
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
Well, let's take this one step at a time. Define 'soiled garments'.
Post Posted: 06 Feb 2016, 09:29
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
brainout wrote:
Yeah, but that's the point. Clothing TYPE is an issue. Being clothed with Christ can be childish clothing or adult clothing, as 1 John2 shows.


Quote:
1John 2:12I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name’s sake. 13I am writing to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I have written to you, children, because you know the Father. 14I have written to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I have written to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one.


I see what you mean now by clothing grade:

1) Children have basic salvation (forgiveness of sins).

2) Young adults have overcome (abiding in Christ).

3) Mature adults have come to know the Father (fullness of maturity).

However, the issue still remains that admission into the Kingdom requires clean garments.

Dying in a state of sin does not invalidate salvation, and that is not what I meant to convey. But, 1John 5:16-17 does say that there are sins leading to death and sins that do not lead to death.

So the issue seems to be dying grace (with clean garments) vs sin unto death (with soiled garments).

I think if you die with soiled garments (sin unto death), your Talent/Minas investments are redistributed to the wealthiest bracket. But even a child with clean garments can keep his investment.

Based on this I still think there is an 'injury by second death' for cosmic believers. Again, why else would the nations need the leaves of the Tree of Life for healing...healing from what?
Post Posted: 06 Feb 2016, 07:07
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
Well, in Zech 4 the clean robes of Joshua was salvation, not individual sin. Wedding garment.

Swaddling is like the GRADE of clothing you wear, post salvation. So dying in a state of sin, 1John 5:16, doesn't invalidate salvation.
Post Posted: 05 Feb 2016, 06:25
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
@Brainout

I'm not sure a normal human adult mind can maintain clean swaddling. Sure, many adults are spiritual children, but it almost always shows as they are often short tempered and gossipy. In that case, an adult in swaddling would not have the right thinking to effectively resist adult level temptations.

But for a child in spiritual swaddling, the temptation USUALLY isn't at the same level as that of a physical adult. Though, I doubt this is always the case.

So whether dressed in Swaddling or Regal Robes, it seems that as long as the dressing is clean, entry into New Jerusalem and inheritance of the Kingdom is granted (like Christ said; "receive the kingdom of God like a little child").

Quote:
Isa 64:6 For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteousness are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.


It appears to me that if we go to Bema with soiled garments, then what we have as far as works (even that initial Talen/Minas investment imputed to us by Christ) will be redistributed. This is akin to the lazy servant's talent/minas being taken away. Why should a person in soiled garments be allowed to wear jewelry?

So unrighteousness circulating in the mind can literally "take us away" (Isa 64:6), to the Outer Darkness.
Post Posted: 04 Feb 2016, 21:37
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
Yeah. But being clothed with Christ is higher than just having clean clothes (Joshua analogy which is where, Zech 4?) -- Clothing is a thinking, Gal 4:19, Christ BORN in you, so your thinking WARDROBE would include gold silver precious stones, since those are also and even primarily, items of apparel.

So a baby in Christ is clothed with Christ, but as it were, in swaddling clothes. An adult can be simply dressed or regally dressed (Bible well understood, circulating in your SOC compared with mere Faith Rest or other basic doctrines).
Post Posted: 03 Feb 2016, 08:47
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
I was having a hard time trying to figure out what roles clothing plays vs precious stones/metals, in determining our place in eternity. Then, I was lead to this passage (its ironic how I never saw it before, since RBT always opened with it).

Quote:
2 Tim 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17so that the man of God may be adequate,
equipped for every good work.


If we associate righteousness (thinking doctrine while in fellowship) with white clothing, and good works with precious stones/metals; then 2 Tim 3 indicates righteousness is a prerequisite for production.

I'm not sure that clothing type is so much the issue, so long as the clothing isn't soiled. That seems to be what Jesus was saying when He said, "receive the kingdom of God like a little child."

Rev 22 also emphasize the importance of having clean garments to enter New Jerusalem, yet works (as in precious stones/metals), don't seem to be such an issue.

Works (good or bad) are thinking put into action. It looks like Jesus is more concerned with our thinking than action. I would imagine that righteous thinking would inevitably lead to righteous action. If a test is failed, then it reflects the believers unwillingness to maintain clean garments.
Post Posted: 02 Feb 2016, 02:41
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
Yeah, but that's the point. Clothing TYPE is an issue. Being clothed with Christ can be childish clothing or adult clothing, as 1 John2 shows.
Post Posted: 29 Jan 2016, 07:21
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
brainout wrote:
No, that cannot be, as in 1John2 nikaw is applied to 'little children', meaning new/spiritual-childhood believers. So they didn't mature. Keep trying, though...


Quote:
Matthew 18:3
And he said: "Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Mark 10:15
Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it."

Luke 18:17
Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it."

1 Corinthians 14:20
Brothers and sisters, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults.


It seems that children (for the most part) do not commit the deep rooted mental attitude sins that adults do. So theoretically, a believing child is not as likely to soil their garments as an adult would.

Like 1 Cor 14:20, be an infant to evil, but an adult in thinking.
Post Posted: 28 Jan 2016, 22:01
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
Search terms: death, darkness, outside, sin, injury, soul, garments, linen, robes, naked.

Its no small task, but here is a pool of verses I've been accumulating over the past few months. I had the restructuring of the Bride in mind. It might prove helpful in our search.
Quote:

1 Cor 3:14If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. 16Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.

Rom 11:24For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?

John 15:5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. 6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.

Rev 22:16“I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star.”

Rev 22:14Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter by the gates into the city. 15Outside are the dogs and the sorcerers and the immoral persons and the murderers and the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices lying.

Rev 2:11‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.’

1 Cor 3:15If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Prov 8:36"But he who sins against me injures his own soul; All those who hate me love death."

Rev 3:12‘He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem

Eph 2:20having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, 21in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, 22in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.

Eph 5:5For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

Rev 3:5‘He who overcomes will thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life (note: Rev 17:8 says non-believers names are note written in Book of Life at all. So "blotting out" is not a loss of salvation, but a loss of blessings due to a lack of experiential sanctification.)

2 Tim 2:11It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him; 12If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us; 13If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.

Hebrews 11:9-16 calls New Jerusalem (the city built by God) the City of Abraham; yet, Rev 21:9 calls it the Bride of the Lamb. Both Israel and the Church are called the spiritual seed of Abraham. If both Israel and the Church were/are betrothed to Christ, then the only logical conclusion (given the scriptural evidence) is; the faithful of Israel and the Church will be integrated together as the Bride of Christ to ultimately reflect His glory.

Clothing

Zech 3:1 Is this not a brand plucked from the fire?” 3Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments and standing before the angel. 4He spoke and said to those who were standing before him, saying, “Remove the filthy garments from him.” Again he said to him, “See, I have taken your iniquity away from you and will clothe you with festal robes.” 5Then I said, “Let them put a clean turban on his head.” So they put a clean turban on his head and clothed him with garments, while the angel of the LORD was standing by.

Rev 3:18 I advise you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself, and that the shame of your nakedness will not be revealed; and eye salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see. 19‘Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent.

Rev 19:7 “Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready.” 8It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.


I included a few personal notes, but I'm not sure of anything yet.
Post Posted: 28 Jan 2016, 16:03
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
Yeah, so now we're back to word searches but maybe refined: clothing versus naked (esp. in Revelation, since the Laodiceans were saved), 'outer', and 'darkness'. Any other keywords?

Anonynomenon wrote:
@Brainout

Well, I'm not sure its pure analogy. There must be physical distance to reflect spiritual distance. Like being locked out of the Wedding, or not being allowed into New Jerusalem.
Post Posted: 28 Jan 2016, 06:33
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
@Brainout

Well, I'm not sure its pure analogy. There must be physical distance to reflect spiritual distance. Like being locked out of the Wedding, or not being allowed into New Jerusalem.
Post Posted: 28 Jan 2016, 00:54
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
Well, that's why it seems we should treat 'outer' and 'darkness' analogously, for the elect. Figurative for some kind of distance and separation.
Post Posted: 28 Jan 2016, 00:24
  Post subject:  Re: Three Types Salvation  Reply with quote
@Brainout

That's true, but would little children be sent to the Outer Darkness for not having the opportunity to mature? So maybe the penalty comes to those who had the time and availability of teachings, and didn't make use of it. I know nikaw can refer to juridicial and soul salvation, but it seems that the 7 letters refer to the soul side of things. I just feel like interpreting nikaw differently for each letter would open a double standard.
Post Posted: 27 Jan 2016, 13:58

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