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 Forum: Gospel, or Works Salvation?   Topic: Outer Darkness and Weeping and Gnashing of Teeth

Posted: 14 Oct 2015, 18:01 

Replies: 198
Views: 110334


Ok, so in light of all that has been discussed in this thread thus far, what about the Vinedresser in John 15? John 15: 1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may...

 Forum: Gospel, or Works Salvation?   Topic: Outer Darkness and Weeping and Gnashing of Teeth

Posted: 11 Oct 2015, 05:34 

Replies: 198
Views: 110334


Wow, alot of good brain food here. I agree with Hupostasis here but why are the first (aborted) to be paid last and the last (kings) to be paid first? I think its as simple as a righteous king putting the needs of the people before his own. As a result, the king recieves a level of honor and respect...

 Forum: Gospel, or Works Salvation?   Topic: Outer Darkness and Weeping and Gnashing of Teeth

Posted: 09 Oct 2015, 19:23 

Replies: 198
Views: 110334


I'm thinking that this same principle should exist in OT as well. I mean is Bema exclusively for the Church? Even if it was, Israel was supposed to be Bride, so the OT should have some material on this too. It seems like Jesus used the terms outer darkness and weeping/gnashing as technical terms, as...

 Forum: Gospel, or Works Salvation?   Topic: Outer Darkness and Weeping and Gnashing of Teeth

Posted: 09 Oct 2015, 17:59 

Replies: 198
Views: 110334


In Matt 25:30 " there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth". The Greek looks like this: ὁ κλαυθμὸς καὶ ὁ βρυγμὸς τῶν ὀδόντων. The nomination masculine singular article "ὁ" is used to focus on the "the outer darkness". Does this indicate that the outer darkness is a pla...

 Forum: Gospel, or Works Salvation?   Topic: Outer Darkness and Weeping and Gnashing of Teeth

Posted: 09 Oct 2015, 04:59 

Replies: 198
Views: 110334


Thank you so much for writing this. The subject has been on my mind for the past few days now. My apologies for throwing your last thread off topic. These doctrines are so interconnected that its hard to stay focused on one single subject. I've come to agree with you and Brainout, the outer darkness...

 Forum: Gospel, or Works Salvation?   Topic: Annihilationism and Luke 16 (souls get terminated?)

Posted: 08 Oct 2015, 21:11 

Replies: 16
Views: 8321


@ Brainout I went back and looked over the Parable of Talents after reading your response. I have to say, I agree that the lazy servant is saved too. If that is true, then there has to be a dark outter portion of heaven for weeping and gnashing of teeth. Now, obviously this has to be a very exaggera...

 Forum: Gospel, or Works Salvation?   Topic: Annihilationism and Luke 16 (souls get terminated?)

Posted: 08 Oct 2015, 15:59 

Replies: 16
Views: 8321


In the Talents Parable, the lazy servant loses his talent. That doesn't seem consistent with salvation or the Bema seat, for in salvation, righteousness is credited to us upon faith. It makes more sense that the talent is the gospel. What do you do with the gospel? Do you believe it to be credited w...

 Forum: Gospel, or Works Salvation?   Topic: Annihilationism and Luke 16 (souls get terminated?)

Posted: 08 Oct 2015, 03:26 

Replies: 16
Views: 8321


@ Brainout, I do want start at topic on this, but I haven't time or energy today. I see what you're trying to communicate, that mature believers will have access to more blessings than the less matured believers, however, I think it would be inaccurate to assume that a believer would be cast into a ...

 Forum: Gospel, or Works Salvation?   Topic: Annihilationism and Luke 16 (souls get terminated?)

Posted: 05 Oct 2015, 22:52 

Replies: 16
Views: 8321


Yeah, the resurrection of death/second death totally blows annihilationism out of the water. It seems to me that annihilationism is nothing more than an attempt to dismiss personal responsibility for rejecting Christ. Where else does the scripture imply that one can still be saved even after death? ...

 Forum: Eschatology   Topic: rapture imminent?

 Post subject: Re: rapture imminent?
Posted: 04 Oct 2015, 03:01 

Replies: 14
Views: 7665


@ Brainout To your knowledge, how many other people are working on this 'meter'? Is it a joint effort? Will there be a joint disclosure in the near future? That would be thrilling. To be "frank", I just don't see the "imminency doctrine" when it comes to the Rapture. Contrary to ...

 Forum: Eschatology   Topic: rapture imminent?

 Post subject: Re: rapture imminent?
Posted: 03 Oct 2015, 21:10 

Replies: 14
Views: 7665


I dont think the Lord was commenting on whether or not the Church would be inserted, or how long that would take during the Olivet Discourse. From the context of the discussion taking place, the "imminency statement" was made in reference to the Second Advent. Those waiting at the end of t...

 Forum: Eschatology   Topic: rapture imminent?

 Post subject: Re: rapture imminent?
Posted: 03 Oct 2015, 17:56 

Replies: 14
Views: 7665


Not disagreeing with your conclusion, but Mark 13:32 (just like the famous Matt 24:36) is specifically about the Second Advent aka Day of the Lord. Why would no man know the day or hour of the Second Advent? Look at Matt 24:22. The Tribulation will be cut short for the sake of the elect. Now, betwee...

 Forum: Calvinism   Topic: perseverance of the saints is not eternal security

Posted: 30 Sep 2015, 15:07 

Replies: 13
Views: 7334


@ Hupostasis Yeah, people always use the "demons have faith" argument to attack 'faith alone'. My response to that is, demons (and some non-believers) have a total disregard for righteousness vs sin. In their eyes, their sins aren't actually sins at all, so how could they believe that Chri...

 Forum: Calvinism   Topic: perseverance of the saints is not eternal security

Posted: 29 Sep 2015, 18:40 

Replies: 13
Views: 7334


@ Brainout Feel free to chime in at anytime. I find your opinions to be thought provoking. :thumbup: I do see what you mean by the last Christian, but at the same time it could come down to the last maturing Christian(s). Lets say out of a roomful of believers, only 3 or 4 are actively learning and ...

 Forum: Calvinism   Topic: perseverance of the saints is not eternal security

Posted: 29 Sep 2015, 18:17 

Replies: 13
Views: 7334


@ Hupostasis By "truley saved", I meant whether those who believe they are saved, actually believe(d) that Jesus died for our sins. Nonetheless, I do see what you're saying. The use of certain words in place of others has a subtle suggestive power on the subconscious mind, almost like a fo...

 Forum: Calvinism   Topic: perseverance of the saints is not eternal security

Posted: 29 Sep 2015, 04:55 

Replies: 13
Views: 7334


You make some vitally important observations. I was raised to believe that salvation came by faith alone in Christ alone. No human works involved to gain or maintain salvation. For a while, I thought that the majority of "christian" denominations believed that, but now it seems that "...

 Forum: Trinity   Topic: Biblical Unitarians on John 2 / 3 / 10 (ignoring "you are gods")

Posted: 28 Sep 2015, 15:11 

Replies: 27
Views: 15752


I tend to agree with you about the unique quality of the Church Age, but Jesus quoted Psalm 82, when He said, "you are Gods". So what did that mean for Israel? We know this was before the hypostatic union, so was this an acknowledgment of a future age of corporate hupostasis? I'm glad you...

 Forum: Trinity   Topic: Biblical Unitarians on John 2 / 3 / 10 (ignoring "you are gods")

Posted: 27 Sep 2015, 18:29 

Replies: 27
Views: 15752


I tend to agree with you about the unique quality of the Church Age, but Jesus quoted Psalm 82, when He said, "you are Gods". So what did that mean for Israel? We know this was before the hypostatic union, so was this an acknowledgment of a future age of corporate hupostasis?

 Forum: Trinity   Topic: Biblical Unitarians on John 2 / 3 / 10 (ignoring "you are gods")

Posted: 25 Sep 2015, 18:01 

Replies: 27
Views: 15752


If we are indeed Gods, being in union with Christ, does that mean that hupostasis is extended to Church Age believers as a whole (to a lesser degree)?

 Forum: TextCrit   Topic: Daniel 9 Meter

 Post subject: Re: Daniel 9 Meter
Posted: 16 Sep 2015, 05:36 

Replies: 7
Views: 4821


Ok. I spent some time watching your new videos. All I can comment on is whether or not Daniel actually spoke in meter as he prayed. I doubt he did. Here is why, you say Daniel 9:4-13 is 434 syllables long. According to one of your documents (which I double checked with Biblehub's transliteration), v...

 Forum: TextCrit   Topic: Daniel 9 Meter

 Post subject: Re: Daniel 9 Meter
Posted: 13 Sep 2015, 19:24 

Replies: 7
Views: 4821


I just find it strange. Is there anything talking about the meter's existence in the Talmud or other traditional commentaries? If this was once common knowledge, even if only in academic circles, I would expect someone to have written something about it. The Church fathers may have been idiots but y...

 Forum: TextCrit   Topic: Daniel 9 Meter

 Post subject: Re: Daniel 9 Meter
Posted: 12 Sep 2015, 08:12 

Replies: 7
Views: 4821


Do you think that maybe the Church was never destined to know this information as common knowledge? Not because God is hiding it, but because we choose not to see. I mean, why isn't there any documentation reflecting any of this from the early Christians? God preserved the Old Testament via the Jews...

 Forum: Eschatology   Topic: Pre-Trib Rapture Debate

 Post subject: Re: Pre-Trib Rapture Debate
Posted: 31 Aug 2015, 02:50 

Replies: 17
Views: 8146


I meant it in a figurative sense, but it was probably a misuse of the word. Larkin didn't say much about hypostatic union other than identifying it as its own dispensation. My concern is that Daniel 9:26 doesn't say that the Messiah is to be cut off BY the 62nd week but AFTER (we'achera) the 62nd we...

 Forum: Eschatology   Topic: Pre-Trib Rapture Debate

 Post subject: Re: Pre-Trib Rapture Debate
Posted: 31 Aug 2015, 01:27 

Replies: 17
Views: 8146


You must be talking about hupostasis. Clarence Larkin wrote about that in his book The Dispensational Truth. I've been of the opinion lately that we are currently still in hupostasis. No, Christ is not here in the flesh, but we are His body and in Him we are the Temple. Daniel 9 says that the Messia...

 Forum: Eschatology   Topic: Pre-Trib Rapture Debate

 Post subject: Re: Pre-Trib Rapture Debate
Posted: 30 Aug 2015, 23:55 

Replies: 17
Views: 8146


Um, wow. I'll have to re-read that a few times before I can begin to grasp that. But what if Paul was tagging a new dispensational age at Christ's birth, like the Age of the Living Temple. I doubt those 33 years before the Church had any Millennial quality, and we know as you said that the Church be...

 Forum: Eschatology   Topic: Pre-Trib Rapture Debate

 Post subject: Re: Pre-Trib Rapture Debate
Posted: 30 Aug 2015, 14:33 

Replies: 17
Views: 8146


Ok. Im a little confused now. You're saying that Paul was tagging Jesus' birth as the start of a new 490, when Israel was still in its last 490 according to Daniel. Was this new 490 supposed to overlap the last 33 years of Daniel's 490? It can't pertain to the Church, since that didnt start for anot...

 Forum: Eschatology   Topic: Pre-Trib Rapture Debate

 Post subject: Re: Pre-Trib Rapture Debate
Posted: 30 Aug 2015, 04:34 

Replies: 17
Views: 8146


If Paul was tagging Christ's birth, was he indicating the start of a new 2100? Can one dispensation coexist within another dispensation?

 Forum: Eschatology   Topic: Pre-Trib Rapture Debate

 Post subject: Re: Pre-Trib Rapture Debate
Posted: 30 Aug 2015, 02:34 

Replies: 17
Views: 8146


Have you found any reason to believe that the Church's present duration of nearly 2000 years some how balances to Jewish time? Honestly that would kind of scare me. I would have to reassess my understanding of the rapture if any such evidence did exist. What could that mystery event be if not the st...

 Forum: Eschatology   Topic: Pre-Trib Rapture Debate

 Post subject: Re: Pre-Trib Rapture Debate
Posted: 26 Aug 2015, 04:43 

Replies: 17
Views: 8146


Well here's a funny idea. If the Millennium belongs to the Messiah, what if human history is actually bisecting a hypothetical 2,100 year Messianic reign? Pre-trib theology is dependent on the Church acting as a spacer between the cross and the Trib. I've seen some of your clips on the Genesis resto...

 Forum: Eschatology   Topic: Pre-Trib Rapture Debate

 Post subject: Re: Pre-Trib Rapture Debate
Posted: 26 Aug 2015, 01:16 

Replies: 17
Views: 8146


Hi there. I'm a fellow pre-tribber. You've done alot of studying on the subject. Very impressed :mrgreen: Since nobody's debating yet, I'd like to ask you about Acts 2:17's citation of Joel 2:28. Joel was talking about Israel's reception of the Holy Spirit in the Millennium, right? So was the prophe...
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