FrankForum (Frankness IS Forum)

No ads, no mods, Frankly Anonymous (you can join w/fake name/email, are not tracked)!
It is currently 24 Jul 2019, 07:26

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Extra Smileys: http://forums.mydigitallife.info/misc.p ... _Editor_QR

Not moderated, so you are on your own. Spambots, stalkers and anti-semites will be banned without notice. Else, POLICE YOURSELF.



Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: 11 Aug 2015, 01:27 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 10 Aug 2015, 16:03
Posts: 1831
Gratuitous, sometimes amuzing videos on this journey (the vid descriptions are helpful, tho):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVgInjnaunI&list=PL1bv_xPIih3fF-5yaAHjiC34wC01-1Dnb


Most Linux folks, when asked about installing Linux, only think in terms of dual booting, 'wubi', ''virtual box', 'virtual machine', and that's fine: but for your average Windows person, that stuff is TMI, too complicated.

Here's a better answer, so that you almost never have to learn Linux:

Ignore all that complex stuff, just follow these 10 steps. The hardest thing about installing Mint, is deciding what colors and options you want, which is pretty much the same as for XP. And, as enjoyable, enfin. :)

The example above is for Linux Mint, but it works the same with any other distro I know. If you've never tried Linux, choose Mint, which you can download there. Else, just find a distro you like, do the 10 steps, should get the same result. I did those steps, three months ago on Mint 17, Fedora 22 and PCLinuxOS.

Or below, click here for a longer version of the steps, I actually followed a year ago.

Click here for the latest shorter version (yet substantially the same as in the linuxmint forums). Sometimes it helps to see the same explanation rephrased.

For NOW the distro will indeed treat an external hard drive or stick, as if it were a root internal drive. that wasn't commonly true a year ago, when I first tried doing this. It only worked with Mint 13 and Fedora 17, back then (Fedora wrecked my internal hard drive anyway, but I had a clone). Now, it will likely work with any Linux distro. To be most safe, use some old laptop to do the installation, and remove its internal hard drive (or clone it first). Lappies which I use for this are really cheap on Ebay or dellauction.com, Dell 6410, 6510, D630. They each run about $100-$200, and usually have Win7 on them, which these days is more important than ever. It will be the last Windows.


TERMS:

'distro'=OS and bundled programs, equivalent usually to the traditional bundle of programs Windows would offer, up through XP.
'external hard drive' = Seagate Go Flex, WD Passport, so you can see what an 'external hard drive' looks like. Many models, those are just two examples.

'stick' aka flash drive, pen drive, thumb drive, often sold at Amazon for very low prices.


Report this post
Top
   
PostPosted: 12 Nov 2015, 10:43 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 10 Aug 2015, 16:03
Posts: 1831
This post and the next were originally written a year ago in vimeo group; but vimeo won't allow non-members to view the group posts. So it's reproduced here.

Okay, I finally got Fedora 17 and Mint 13 to work on sticks or external hard drives, but the procedure is NOTHING like they tell you in their forums or on the web. So what's true for these distros, should prove true in the others, though it might not always work.

The procedure, is simple: 'install' the distro to a given external drive, be it a pen drive or an external HDD. In short, the so-called 'live usb' instructions are all bogus. They don't give you persistence. So they are just like CDs, but in usb format.

So: each distro has an option to install it to your hard drive. Question is, WHICH hard drive? You do NOT want the internal hard drive which in Windows is usually 'C', because that will install a Linux 'bootloader' (program which tells the machine which operating system to use). These 'bootloaders' are buggy, or don't play well with Windows, even before Windows 8.

In short, ignore all that stuff, and just follow these 10 steps: http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=197956 or http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.p ... 8#p1027978 . The hardest thing about installing Mint, is deciding what colors and options you want, which is pretty much the same as for XP. And, as enjoyable, enfin. :)

The example above is for Linux Mint, but it works the same with any other distro I know. If you've never tried Linux, choose Mint, which you can download there. Else, just find a distro you like, do the 10 steps, should get the same result. I did those steps, three weeks ago on Mint 17, Fedora 22 and PCLinuxOS.

Longer version of the steps which follows, was written a year prior; those are the steps I actually followed. back then.

For NOW the distro will indeed treat an external hard drive or stick, as if it were a root internal drive. that wasn't commonly true a year ago, when I started this thread.

So to get that blessed persistence on stick or external HDD you can take from machine to machine, do the following:
1. CLONE YOUR HARD DRIVE FIRST. Linux distros are all different, and you can't be sure they won't mess up and install to your hard drive. So get the $3Clonezilla CD from Amazon (easier to understand than the free download of it from sourceforge). Or, use your cloning program (EASEUS Todo backup has one, as does Macrium Reflect, both have free versions but I use paid versions).

2. Plug the CD/stick into the most MODERN machine you have. This is a critical step, for when the program creates the new stick or external HDD version of itself, it uses the hardware specs to decide what to install. So, for example, if you're running the installer on a Pentium 4, then it won't run on an i5, but will easily run on a Pentium 4, Atom, etc.

3. Wait for the thing to boot. This might take 10 minutes.

4. Find the installer program on the menu. For some distros, this is no easy task. Mint has an icon on the desktop as its default, which says 'Install Linux Mint'. Others should have it as a menu option. Click it.

5. Next, depending on the distro, you'll be given a lot of questions about where you are (so they can set the time clock), and you'll have to establish an initial administrator user name and password.

6. Then you're asked where to install. DO NOT install to anything on 'sda', for that is your internal hard drive.The installer itself should be 'sdb', and your external stick or drive you want to install TO, should be 'sdc'. You can tell by the jargon description about the make of the drive and its capacity. Pick the right one.

7. Mint or maybe other distros, then tell you that you must be hooked up to the internet. That is not true for Mint, and may not be true for others. If you must hook up, it will take HOURS to download and install.
8. You might be prompted to specify a root size and partitions. You really don't have to do that. Experiment with the buttons shown and settings (which are always arcane) to figure out how to make the system ITSELF determine the partitions and their types, sizes. (You want the built-in defaults, until you're well-versed in Linux jargon.)

9. Then let the system do its thing. Again, if you had to connect to the net in order to install, it will take HOURS, as they allocate very little bandwidth. This is true for Fedora.

10. After installation, you'll be prompted to reboot. Do not reboot. Instead, shut down. Then wait for the program to tell you to remove the CD/usb installer stick, after which you are to press ENTER. Then the machine shuts down.

11. On the same or another machine which is OFF, insert your newly-created stick/hard drive, and turn it on. It will take 10 minutes to boot. But at that point, the full capacity of your stick/drive should be recognized.


Report this post
Top
   
PostPosted: 12 Nov 2015, 10:47 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 10 Aug 2015, 16:03
Posts: 1831
EXTRA BONUS: after you've gotten your new stick/HDD up and running, of course you'll spend hours going through whatever Software Package manager it has, to download programs. You'll also want to be configuring your machine for the fonts, colors, backgrounds, cursors, etc. that you like. Then there are the 'desktops' you want to install (KDE is most like Windows).

You'll need to download and install partitioning programs, video players, etc. You'll spend hours doing all this, because the selection is vast.

Okay, but when done, you won't want to go through it again. And, you don't have to. For again, you can use CLONEZILLA to clone the new stick/external HDD you just made. The clone will have all your changes on it. Be sure that the 'target' (the new stick/HDD you'll use to make a second copy of your creation in #9) -- be sure the target's GB capacity is as large or larger than the source.

If larger, the leftover will be unallocated after the clone, which you can later extend.

Oh: if you'll use Clonezilla to clone what you created in #9, allocate five hours for the cloning. So don't use your main machine, or do it overnight.

By the way, it took me 40 minutes to run the Install Linux Mint program on an external 250 GB hard drive. But to download all the other software, it's now taking a long time, because there are 40,000 programs ('packages') to examine. Do it by categories. Mint has a good Software Manager (which automates download and installation, with descriptions per program, lets you filter your search by name, category, etc).

Fedora's Software Manger is called 'Apper', and isn't so useful. But it's okay. If you're not used to Linux, get Mint first, but also get Fedora.

For if you'll resize or move partitions on your stick/HDD, you can't do it while running that stick. You have to change the partitions either in Windows (which cannot read Linux partitions), or in some other distro. So always make two distros. For me, that's Mint 13 and Fedora 17. Later versions are less friendly.

ONE MORE IMPORTANT THING: do NOT be connected to the internet when you do this installation. Fedora, for example, will automatically put you on a later version, rather than (for example) 17, assuming you installed using 17. Since the Linux distros have all gone nuts and aped the Unity interface post 17, this results in several hours WASTED. That interface is by far the most obtuse and like Windows 8, full of bottlenecks and roadblocks and hidden things.

So if you actually like a distro you're installing, do NOT be hooked up to the internet when you install, or you are likely to get a different distro.

The next thing you need to remember, is not to allow updates that change the version -- clone beforehand. Because, it turns out the Linux updater is as heedless of your current settings and desktop, as Windows. I just learned this the hard way, using Fedora 17, and then making the mistake of being connected to the internet at the time, and they WIPED OUT EVERYTHING I had set.

Also, Fedora's 'Apper' Package manager is horrible. I spent six hours trying to undo its faulty update with yum-complete-transaction, and it stayed locked, no matter how many times I used kill command in the terminal. HORRIBLE THOUGHTLESSNESS.

Programming has gotten very bad, these days.


Report this post
Top
   
PostPosted: 25 Jan 2016, 17:08 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 10 Aug 2015, 16:03
Posts: 1831
Here's a thread I forgot about, on this topic. There are also some in bleeping computer, will put them here when I find them.

Frankly, the stick isn't necessarily the cause of the slow booting. I've created some distros on 2.0 sticks that are SOOOO slow (Fedora being the thread example and yes it's slow), but others are fast. Debian 8 in particular, is fast.

I'll have to correct this thread or update it to show what are the results I've had, for at this point maybe five or six distros actually did install to sticks. I've tried over 12 of them, and will keep on trying.

The ones I cannot get to install are CentOS, Gentoo, Slackware, and I forget the others. However, I've been using their Prizix versions (so I don't have to wait to download, I buy them from Prizix in Amazon, reviews are there for the 32-b it and 64-bit versions, just search on my nickname and review in Google).


Report this post
Top
   
PostPosted: 28 Sep 2016, 12:04 
User avatar

Joined: 02 Sep 2015, 10:19
Posts: 92
USB 3.0 is essential.

Like Linux OS X runs incredibly well from a portable external drive.


Report this post
Top
   
PostPosted: 29 Sep 2016, 04:09 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 10 Aug 2015, 16:03
Posts: 1831
Well it does help, yeah. But I've had fast running 2.0 sticks too, with Mint, when plugged into my desktops.


Report this post
Top
   
PostPosted: 04 May 2017, 20:10 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 10 Aug 2015, 16:03
Posts: 1831
Oddly enough, the best sticks for running Linux on a stick are 2.0, not 3.0 (tho the latter is faster so long as it's plugged into a 3.0 port):
https://www.amazon.com/Kingston-Datatra ... B003MWR3QW

    Strategy: keep the initial installation small, but not too small. 32GB is good for today's distros. This stick's brand is most seamless with them, I don't know why. I've done some on the 3.0 G4 upgraded stick and it has problems (suddenly goes all write-protect, which is fine if you don't want to add anything, but Linux needs updates). The 2.0's I've used now three years with good success.

    Clonezilla insists that the target drive of a clone be bigger than the source, so if you keep the source at 32GB, anything you clone it to is likely larger. Then after you've configured the 32GB the way you want it, 'pristine', you can clone it to a larger stick or hard drive. Cloning stick to stick can take a short time on a fast laptop.

    I've also had good luck with the baby Patriot sticks since 2013, https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0058BG0UK I use them daily, much more than the Kingston.

    The worst sticks are SanCruzer. They are so slow.

The Kingston 2.0 sticks are about as fast as external drives and even internal (tested versus Seagate Momentus 7200 and others whose names I don't recall). Some of the 3.0's run faster -- again, you don't get 3.0 unless plugged into a 3.0 port.

    You can buy insertable 3.0 ports for older laptops. My favorites are

    StarTech 54mm: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00535CMEE
    GMYLE 54mm: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004YB60KA
    GMYLE 34mm: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005YXD4I8

    The 54mms fit in the side slot of Dell Latitude 6530, for example.
    The 34mm fits into Dell Latitude 6410 very well, and iffy in the 6510 (in one of my 6510s it works fine, but in the other it never stays put).

    There are windows drivers which have to be installed, be sure to look in the Amazon product description for the right ones. It's RENESAS. The StarTech and the GMYLE seem to use the same drivers.

    Linux recognizes these sometimes. I don't know why.

Again, just run the regular distro installer using a computer which has no internal hard drive in it (laptop is ideal), and the installer will detect ONLY that target; will format the target to run as a standalone full install, not a live USB. It's important that there be no internal hard drive in the machine, cuz grub tries to install on any internal hard drive it finds. So, for example Dell Latitude D630, 6410, 6510, 6530 all have drives that easily slide out like drawers after you remove 1 or 2 screws, you don't have to open the machine). Takes five minutes to unscrew and store the drive safely. So maybe get an old computer like a Dell Lat just so you can do the stick installs. (I even did it once with Windows 7 and XP, but I don't know how.)

    I'm typing on a red Dell 6410 with 8GB RAM, backlit keyboard, 1366x768 reso, 160GB HDD, Win7 64 bit Professional, and it only cost me $100 on Ebay.

I've done stick installations using Debian, Fedora KDE and Xfce and GNome, OpenSuse, LinuxMint (easiest), PCLinuxOS fullmonty (most flexible, rolling distro, now discontinued, but you can still download the iso, and it still does updates), Mageia (sadly not a good distro, it insists on CD-ROM insertion of some non-existent type every time you update or the update won't complete), Makulu, Ubuntu (annoying, imo). Couldn't get Slackware to work, as it wants you to type in a lot of code and do the partitioning yourself.

Download Linux Mint (burn to CD then use its install icon for best results on a computer whose internal drive is removed or configured OFF in BIOS), https://www.linuxmint.com/

Download Fedora (burn it to CD, cuz you'll need to use CD for best installation results): https://spins.fedoraproject.org/xfce/download/
or
https://spins.fedoraproject.org/en/

The thing is, you can download any one of them and then using the Yum Extender (akin to Windows updates but much more) you pick all the 'task' names in the database and then at boot you can select which 'session' (interface) you like best. I installed it to a 2.0 Kingston purple 32GB as pictured in the first link of this post. Computer in your pocket. You need it to fix Windows crashes. Often. The updates take hours (mine took 8 hours using fastest -5 wifi home network), so start Yum Extender just before bedtime.

Hope this helps.


Report this post
Top
   
PostPosted: 09 May 2017, 07:17 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 10 Aug 2015, 16:03
Posts: 1831
Update: I can't find the Kingston G2 green 64GB sticks at Amazon now. Bummer.

Fedora 22 64-bit Xfce works fast on the 32GB version (purple), tho. Moreover, the killer is I lost YUM so changed repos, added Synaptic, then it reported I had TWO SETS of YUM and KERNEL. I was sure then the distro would tank. Took a chance, selected only the Linux 4.4 kernel (it had been on 4.1), and WHEEE all the dupes were gone on reboot, but YUM won't work either. Only the dnf yum. But Synaptic finds them all and works okay.

Now if only I could figure out how to make it only show the updates....


Report this post
Top
   
PostPosted: 24 Jun 2017, 10:05 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: 10 Aug 2015, 16:03
Posts: 1831
Fedora 25 only shows the updates. And, yes 3.0 is faster for some other distros, bsst size stick is 32GB, I prefer Kingston G4, which is about $13 at Walmart (cheapest site I've found). But with Fedora, it's plenty fast on the usually-too-slow San Cruzer glide 2.0. I'ave NO idea why, the earlier versions of Fedora were on the same and so slow I stopped using them. But 25 is very very nice, totally customizable.


Report this post
Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 

All times are UTC


You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited