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Who among the GOP would you vote for (pick two, idea of Prez and Veep)
Donald Trump
Ben Carson
Ted Cruz
Marco Rubio
Jeb Bush
Mike Huckabee
John Kasich
Rand Paul
Carly Fiorina
Chris Christie
Jim Gilmore
Lindsey Graham
Bobby Jindal
Rick Santorum
George Pataki
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PostPosted: 13 Dec 2015, 00:24 
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There are a few problems I have with Trump. I get that he is percieved as being independent of the system and that he is financing his own campaign, but he really comes off as arrogant and even childish. I realize that attitude apeals to a lot of Americans today, but the last thing we need in this mess is a loose cannon.

Another thing is his desire to ban Muslims from entering the US. Even if such a ban were temporary, that is a direct violation of our Freedom of Religion. I'm not trying to sympathize with Muslims here, but an outright ban is an unnecessary overreaction. How far would Trump go to override Checks and Balances to achieve that ban?

I realize everyone is uptight over the shooting, but arrogance and emotional thinking are deadly to a nation in such a condition as ours. God makes war against the arrogant. That's what RBT taught us.

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PostPosted: 13 Dec 2015, 00:34 
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Okay, well I don't like Trump for all the reasons you cite, Anonynomenon, but it's only prudent to put a moratorium on FOREIGN ENTRY for those not citizens of the US, who are Muslim. Not due to their religion, but due to the LABEL being used by TERRORISTS. I'd go so far as to check anyone foreign entering, no matter what country. Again, it's not about religion, but about possible terrorism. Visas etc. should be 1000x tougher now, especially for someone coming into the US from a known Muslim country on their passport.

That won't stop all the entries, but it will help.


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PostPosted: 13 Dec 2015, 01:11 
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I'm not agains a moratorium, but it has to be based on background checks or travel from war torn nations or terrorist havens. Once you single out religion, you destroy the very nation you vow to protect. We should stop travel from Syria, Iraq, Iran, Turkey, Yemen, Saudi Arabia. How exactly do you prove whether or not someone is muslim?

Anyways, this man seems much more stable IMO.

https://youtu.be/oidaJHwZZgs

America needs to stop, step back and calm the hell down. Stop the flow of money going out until we can figure out who is using it against us. Stop the flow of immigrants coming in until we regain stability. Stop fighting wars that turn out to be lost causes. We are not obligated to stop the ME from self destructing. If we withdraw all support, and focus on protecting ourselves, then we might have a chance.

We need to ditch the Saudis and use our own oil, then we can uproot BRICS before they gain momentum, without firing a single shot, just like we did to the Soviets.

I'm not anti-war, but this nation is too polarized to fight any kind of war right now. It would be suicide.

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PostPosted: 13 Dec 2015, 02:35 
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Replies in green.

Anonynomenon wrote:
I'm not agains a moratorium, but it has to be based on background checks or travel from war torn nations or terrorist havens. Once you single out religion, you destroy the very nation you vow to protect. We should stop travel from Syria, Iraq, Iran, Turkey, Yemen, Saudi Arabia. How exactly do you prove whether or not someone is muslim? Okay, fair enough.

Anyways, this man seems much more stable IMO.

https://youtu.be/oidaJHwZZgs

America needs to stop, step back and calm the hell down. Stop the flow of money going out until we can figure out who is using it against us. Stop the flow of immigrants coming in until we regain stability. Stop fighting wars that turn out to be lost causes. We are not obligated to stop the ME from self destructing. If we withdraw all support, and focus on protecting ourselves, then we might have a chance. So long as we draw the line in the sand to REALLY defend Israel (not token, but a HUGE and REAL presence).. fair enough. For the second we turn our back on her, the US is toast. No more Vietnams. Obama caused this by doing the 2011 withdrawal.

We need to ditch the Saudis and use our own oil, then we can uproot BRICS before they gain momentum, without firing a single shot, just like we did to the Soviets. Absolutely. Check this out: http://nationalinterest.org/feature/saudi-arabias-new-%E2%80%9C-us-or-against-us%E2%80%9D-attitude-14596

I'm not anti-war, but this nation is too polarized to fight any kind of war right now. It would be suicide.


The other points you made, I'd have to think about more. Not sure Rand Paul is the right guy, but I don't want Trump. Not sure polarization matters, but rather what is the right position we should adopt.


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PostPosted: 13 Dec 2015, 03:06 
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I agree with protecting Israel, but if this continues, there won't be an America to protect Israel.

I don't agree with all of Rand Paul, but as an over all package, I think he is the only one who can offer solutions without starting another Vietnam or harming the Bill of Rights. Iraq's display of negligence when ISIS took over tells me that another ME war will be another Vietnam. He seems consistent with his answers and keeps liberty as his standard, at least overtly. That doesn't mean I trust him. For all I know he's, bought out too.

As long as America is over polarized, we will jerk from Obama's to Trump's (over compensation) in our decision making processes until will crash. When you drive on ice, never slam on the breaks, never jerk the wheel. Just drive slow enough to maintain control.

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PostPosted: 13 Dec 2015, 03:52 
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Article 6 only applies to current US citizens, and it is only to hold public office. No one has a right to emigrate to the US and become a citizen, especially during war.

I think America has been infiltrated at the highest levels, so for me, boy scouts need not apply for POTUS. It will take a real sonofabitch to undue what's been done, to keep America even remotely in a form we recognize. It might even take Caesar. This sums up my position on the matter.

I would love to be wrong.

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 Post subject: NOT CRUZ
PostPosted: 14 Dec 2015, 17:18 
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Okay, having ruled out Rubio now I'm ruling out Cruz. He's something of a wunderkind going by his history, which is decidedly scary, as he cannot read Bible to save his life. So if he cannot read Bible 'law' like the clear Exodus 21:22, then he cannot handle civil law, despite his 30+ years training in it, from Harvard on!

Link proving that he's all emotion and no competence (or is a trickster playing on crowd emotions, which is God's way of saying NOT THIS GUY): http://2016.presidential-candidates.org ... n=abortion

Generic historical info on him: http://2016.presidential-candidates.org/Cruz/

Apparently he's pro-immigration, not as much as Rubio.

Generic table of issues you can click on (why politicks.org is good to use), is in the top 1/3 of that link's page, and you can navigate to other candidates from there also.

Already ruled out Carson for the same reason, but he doesn't claim to DO anything about the abortion issue, except defund Planned Parenthood. Which shouldn't be funded anyway by the Feds, no social programs should. Just that every-third-year 10%.


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PostPosted: 14 Dec 2015, 21:14 
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Anonynomenon wrote:
Anyways, this man seems much more stable IMO.

https://youtu.be/oidaJHwZZgs

America needs to stop, step back and calm the hell down. Stop the flow of money going out until we can figure out who is using it against us. Stop the flow of immigrants coming in until we regain stability. Stop fighting wars that turn out to be lost causes. We are not obligated to stop the ME from self destructing. If we withdraw all support, and focus on protecting ourselves, then we might have a chance.

We need to ditch the Saudis and use our own oil, then we can uproot BRICS before they gain momentum, without firing a single shot, just like we did to the Soviets.

I'm not anti-war, but this nation is too polarized to fight any kind of war right now. It would be suicide.


Okay, I just looked into Rand Paul, here: https://www.randpaul.com/issue/spending-and-debt It's not just that one issue, but his website is so badly designed the Issues header doesn't work. So to get to the header you have to scroll down.

Watched the video you posted, and in that video he says that he'd not send in any troops if the Iraqis wouldn't fight for their own country. Yet in the above link section on 'Israel' he claims to support Israel.

Well, you can't support Israel without being in the Middle East as a permanent thing. We started to have a permanent presence there when we took out Hussein. We knew it would have to be a permanent presence, due to logistics for supporting Israel and growing up the Arabs into some kind of government where actual rule of law matters (to them, rule of law is only a mask, they are immature politically).

Then the libs backed us out.

Worse, Paul is completely ignorant about the nature of the debt, about taxes, etc. He's all hung up on a fake notion of tax loopholes for business, and doesn't know that when you buy a can of tomatoes, YOU are paying the business tax for IT can only get the money to pay the tax by SELLING you that can of tomatoes.

So any tax on business is a double tax on the individual, and the business is never anything but a passthrough device. So anyone so dang dumb he advocates a tax on business, is really just trying to increase INDIVIDUAL taxes.

And don't even get me started on his simpering 'abortion' page.

By contrast, look at what Jeb said re Iraq (compared to Rand Paul in the video): https://jeb2016.com/policy-defeating-isis/

Notice he recognizes a PERMANENT PRESENCE in Iraq, just as his brother did. That's the only way to play this. The logistics demand a presence there. Permanently.

And here, re taxes (I don't like Jeb on taxes either, but his policy will actually work better): https://jeb2016.com/policy-tax-plan/

Jeb proposes to cap individual taxes to 28%, and then reduce corporate taxes to 20% from the current top (actually forced) rate of 35%. If that happens I won't have a job anymore, as most corporations won't want pension plans if the corporate tax is that low.

But God will give me another job. It's still right to reduce taxes without disrupting the economy.

In practice, neither guy would get what he campaigns for. But there's a far greater chance of tax reduction under the seasoned Bush than under the unseasoned Paul.

Having said all this, my mind still isn't made up, so feel free as usual to yell at me or whatever.


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 Post subject: Re: Rand vs Jeb
PostPosted: 15 Dec 2015, 00:08 
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I don't like Rand's tax plan either. I like the flat part, but not the tax on income and not the 14%. I think we should be weaned down to a 10% flat tax on commercial consumption. If you are off the grid and don't have the need to buy anything, then you don't pay tax.

On Israel, we should support them when they need it. If we back out of Syria and Iraq, and back our own petrodollar with US oil, then we can economically cripple the Saudis, Iran, and BRICS.

ISIS will collapse when US resources become unavailable. They would be forced to run directly to the economically crippled Saudis and Turks.
I think Israel should be allowed to handle Palestine as it sees fit. USA should support Israel in its sovereign choices and get the UN off of its back.

As long as America stays in the ME, then America will stay partnered with the Saudis. As long as we continue dealing with the Saudis, we will have to fight the terrorists orgs that we help to create, in order to protect Israel.

If Jeb is elected, we will stay conjoined with Saudi Arabia. America's presence in the ME is threatening Israel and its killing our economy. If our economy goes, then Israel loses its protection and foreign aid.

If we could somehow dominate the energy market with something more efficient than oil, then Saudi Arabia looses its influence, and the Arabs go back to tribal disputes.

On abortion, we're never going to get pro-choice republicans, just too much to ask for.

I kinda like Huckabee's tax plan, but I haven't really dug into his foreign policy.

My main issue is that our enemies are being fed by our taxes, and its all because of our disgusting relationship to the ME. We need Nationalism, we need to shrink the Federal Gov't and we need a closed unit economy.

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PostPosted: 15 Dec 2015, 00:55 
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Okay, well to support Israel we have to be there. We got a clear line to be there for Iraq, which puts us at odds with the Saudis, but that justifies us not being 'conjoined' with them. So now more independent, the US can justify urging both the Saudis who are Sunni and the Iranians who are Shiite like the Iraqis, to stand off, as we are absorbing a good deal of the fighting. And part of the 'our' standoff price from their squabble, is that THEY should 'fight' the radicals who shoot rockets from Gaza into Sderot, from the West Bank and the Golan, into Israel's territory. PERIOD. NOT NEGOTIABLE.

Or, we should just bomb the aforementioned territories out of existence. Better they should be dead zones than red zones.

For the Saudis and Iranians need US to be in Iraq as much as the Iraqis do. And we need to be there for Israel's sake.

All this was Dubya's position, adding that Article 1 of the PLO Charter had to be erased, or no deal on the 'roadmap'. The Saudis hated him for it. So that's hardly 'conjoined'.

And yeah, we shouldn't tell Israel what policy to adopt, but we should work with her on whatever policy SHE adopts; but bear in mind the Knesset is as crazy as Congress. The Likud would be more free to be hardline, if they knew the US was hardline.


Now, for us to do all this we in this country have to agree that we belong there and want to fight for Israel. Oddly enough, all this Muslim nonsense is hardening attitudes against them which is reflected in all this vociferous support for Trump. That will also result in more support for Israel.

But does it mean we should support Trump, since he's getting so popular? I don't know. His tax proposal is a one-upper on Bush's, really, a pared version of the status quo. His idea of a wall to stop immigrating Hispanics is ludicrous. The rest of his immigration platform isn't all that bad, but seems pretty silly. But his idea that a moratorium on Muslim or other possible terrorist 'immigrants', pending vetting, is a good one. That the Repubs lambast him for it, shows they have no integrity.

And it does matter that he's putting his own money on the line. Risking everything, really. Because the all the power guys in the ME are trashing him, even Dubai took down his name from some of their real estate stuff, means he's a target for them not only now, but for years to come. So he's a true patriot, risking more than everyone else. Maybe as a swansong, but it means he has depth (or unimaginable meglomania) of soul.

Sorry I can't make up my mind.


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PostPosted: 15 Dec 2015, 02:08 
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The time to uproot the evil in the ME was 9/11. Instead, we chose to go after scapegoats.

Trump is America's last minute fix, like Israel attempting to take Canaan after rejecting Joshua and Caleb's minority report.

If Jeb is anything like his brother, then I won't be voting for him.

The issue is black and white for me. Go after the enemy and let God handle the rest. I don't see any candidate willing to do that.

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PostPosted: 15 Dec 2015, 20:26 
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I read up a little on Huckabee. I like his Fair Tax idea, his recognition that Medicare and Social Security are nothing more than systematic theft, and his position on Israel and the boarder sound good.

My only issue with him is how he wants to handle ISIS. He wants to form a coalition, which means arming more Arabs and asking them to do our work for us. That's what got us in this mess to start with. And to be honest, Rand Paul is in favor of arming the Kurds. So thats a big NO to Rand and Mike.

There are two ways to kill ISIS:

*Go over there and do it our selves, and don't stop there; I would go after the Saudis too.

Or

*Step back and defund ISIS, since America seems to be the prime contributor.

Like I said, Im not anti-war, I just don't trust any of these guys to lead us. We need a President that is willing to start WW3, so we can tie off our loose ends, but if its another Neo-Con who wants to walk on eggshells, then it doesn't matter who gets elected.

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PostPosted: 16 Dec 2015, 02:16 
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I'm listening to the Las Vegas debate as I type. Just heard both Jeb and Kasich espouse the coalition approach with the Arabs. That is what Dubya said too, but the goal wasn't really to have the coalition, but to APPEAR to have ASKED for it. Meaning, they knew going in that we would be going it alone. But if we are loud about that, we won't get support. They won't give us support, but want to pay lip service. Okay, fine. They are hypocrites. We have to LOOK like we respect whatever they will provide, and then we just tromp in with our big stick.

And, in the final analysis, no one much joined in, though we made a big deal of whatever participation we got.

I don't believe in coalitions. WE GO IT ALONE. Let everyone scream how they hate us. We are the people everyone loves to hate, even as Israel is. But secretly, people admire us. They can't speak up. Fine. I really hope and believe that's what any BUSH president would also believe and follow.

Of course, maybe I'm dreaming.


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PostPosted: 16 Dec 2015, 03:42 
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Presidential speech 9/11/1991, Bush Sr's NWO. At best, he was the mouth piece for an unseen agent, pushing their agenda. At worst, it was his desired Manifest Destiny. But its not just the Bush's. That's my opinion, as insane as it makes me sound.

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PostPosted: 16 Dec 2015, 04:01 
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Okay, well I'm no fan of his daddy, but I do know they had a long-term plan that at first seemed to me to be anti-semitic. But when I heard Dubya make removal of PLO Article One as conditional for any roadmap, my worries vanished. For Article One says "Israel has no right to exist". So then I knew that any seeming cooperation with the Arabs, was just lipservice.

NWO? Unseen agent? Maybe. We all know what Satan's trying to do. Our job, is to know what God wants us to VOTE. And the real movers and shakers, are believers learning and living on Bible, not the politicos.


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 Post subject: Trump in 15th Dec debate
PostPosted: 16 Dec 2015, 05:23 
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On another note: did anyone notice in tonight's debate, how everyone in both the minor-candidate debate and the major, focused solely on the ISIS and Muslim problems?

So Trump's awful behavior riveted the nation to the topic he wanted covered. I really hate to admit this, cuz I can't stand him. Looking at Jesse Jackson, Obaminator, Hellary or him is really beyond my patience to do. If I must listen, I turn away.

But he did succeed in directing the national conversation, and that is indeed a primary role of a President.


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PostPosted: 16 Dec 2015, 07:10 
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Excellent minute by minute Print Extracts, here: Click here. Start at the bottom of the article and work upward, to include the excellent undercard debate.

The CNN full undercard and main Debates, start here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9R5Yci ... XFCFbOVUNl

Trump's meltdown against Jeb Bush about 1 hour 30 minutes into the main debate was so childish, I'll never listen to anything Trump says, again. Click here to see what I mean; exchange occurs halfway through the clip.

You can't have a President like that, who puts down someone else so vilely. So whatever his other motives, I don't care anymore. He'd make a very bad President, and frankly not a good business owner, either.


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PostPosted: 16 Dec 2015, 15:03 
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https://vine.co/v/eU5PIqgq2I1

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PostPosted: 16 Dec 2015, 17:27 
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Can't get link to load. Is there an alternate address?


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PostPosted: 16 Dec 2015, 20:20 
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brainout wrote:
Can't get link to load. Is there an alternate address?


You might try this, if you're still interested.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015/09 ... op-debate/

In case you can't access it, I will explain, though it really defeats my original intent. My reply to your concern for Trump's behavior was a very short piece of footage of Jeb, who stands at 6'3, already the tallest candidate in the field, stepping up on his tip toes for a photo op at a previous debate a few months back. This is the only really good footage of it because it includes the split second that Jeb actually takes a quick, nervous glance at DT, then steps back and adjusts himself to make sure he is standing side by side with him, when attempting to make himself look a head taller. That is 6 year old behavior, at best. But I didn't post it as a reply to make fun of Jeb. He is what he is, for whatever reason that is. I posted it, hoping for a pithy way of demonstrating to you that your expectations of these candidates may work well on paper, but is fundamentally at odds with the reality here on the ground. The world is where it is, and your desire for great websites, a hair style you can approve of, or college style debating techniques from 30 years ago is completely irrelevant. Any candidate that wins or is successful must, to some degree, speak the world's language today. And that language should not be held against them by us. I wouldn't care if George Washington buggered his troops on the sly at Valley Forge. Its none of my business what George got up to. But there was no doubt that he was the right man for the right time. That is what you and I have to determine---who is that man today? If you are going to judge these candidates by who conforms to your own personal norms, standards, and sense of style, then you're dead in the water when it comes to making the correct decision. What does our country need? What does Israel need? What does the world need? Somebody we can feel good about or somebody who has the goods and can deliver them? I want the person who can deliver the goods, even if that person comes in a package that doesn't get invited to my afternoon tea. In the same way I'm grateful my employer doesn't really want to break bread with me, go bowling with me, or constantly send me funny emails that I feel obligated to respond to simply because he's my employer. But he knows I can get the job done and continues to have confidence in me because I deliver.

So much for pith. I wish the video had loaded for you. lol

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PostPosted: 16 Dec 2015, 21:12 
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Yeah, that other link worked, and I see what you're saying, but there could be other reasons for that behavior, like he himself couldn't see the camera and needed to stand taller so he could look directly at it. For if you're tall and the camera is short, to get a line of sight sometimes you have to stand taller.

I already criticized Jeb directly for being prolife and not knowing his own Catholic Bible on Exodus 21:22, starting here (10abc = the full set): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgMj9kP ... 6E521647D1

And he did act childish in accusing Trump on the Muslim banning thing. They all were quite unfair and childish to Trump.

Trump's childishness, however, is even worse, and it means he'd act like that to others as Pres, too. Not acceptable.

Frankly, none of them are acceptable. I'm voting only based on who I think the advisors will be. I can tell somewhat who they will be, by seeing the position expressions on the issues. A President himself never knows much. He just has to be a good judge of character, self-contained, and good at delegating. Trump fails too much in #2, is the American equivalent of Kruschev.

Maybe the world needs a Kruschev again, this time in the USSA. I don't know.


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PostPosted: 16 Dec 2015, 21:59 
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Yes. They are all childish. The world is childish. Most Christians are childish. Its like millions upon millions of babies shaking their rattles on the biggest battlefield imaginable. Childishness is the language the world speaks today, so, regrettably, it should not be a factor in how we decide to vote today. Maybe 20 years ago, 16 years ago, it was still a factor. But not today. We are going to be raped and slaughtered in our own streets, like Europe, unless somebody today does something about it and takes a stand. All the advisers in the world will not give the next president a sense of purpose or a set of testicles. If that is too crude for you, I'm sorry. These are crude times. I cannot discuss a dirty lavatory with you without a few choice words. Language is for accurate communication first, poetry second. Trump's willingness to win a pissing contest, especially when, if he doesn't, the press and his fellow Republicans will relentlessly beat him to death with it all week, is not grounds for being critical of him. He is a fighter. This country, in its present form, will not survive unless we get someone in there who is willing to scrap. Someone who is willing to take on their own party, their own government bureaucracy, the enemies who have already infiltrated, and the world at large. No matter what happens from here on out, things are going to get increasingly ugly in this country. Our destruction will be ugly; our reconstruction, if possible, will be ugly. And, in that context, millions of Americans are actually thrilled that DT is willing to roll up his sleeves and get ugly about it. Many, like me, cannot remember anything happening in this country the last 40 years that the average working person or business person really wanted or agreed to. The government just did it to us. Now many people in the government and media want to import thousands of these backward killers and rapists. So Americans are pissed, fed up, and want someone to stop this onslaught. They would not even be behind Donald as loyally if he didn't know how to verbally assault someone. Strange times, indeed.

Don't think I have anything else to add at this time. We disagree about DT. That's our right.

But I'll leave you with this. Even a lot of blacks and other minorities are backing Trump and leaving the Democrats in droves right now because of the stark alternative of his message. Don't know if you've seen these two ladies before, but if you haven't a feel for what's really going on out there, they illustrate the anger perfectly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iexWoMynU4

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PostPosted: 16 Dec 2015, 22:38 
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Yep, those two are just like the typical Trump supporter, like the winning debate team. All yelling and no substance.

Ugly is right.


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PostPosted: 16 Dec 2015, 23:24 
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Let's just force a burqa on them and call it a wrap. lol

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PostPosted: 16 Dec 2015, 23:45 
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:hattip: :planeDIY:


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PostPosted: 17 Dec 2015, 00:57 
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I think we should vote based on doctrinal standards, not politics:

1) Arrogance is a deal breaker. Even if it is carried out with good intentions it WILL backfire, and USA can't afford that.

2) As believers, we are commanded to respect the law of our land. That legal system happens to be the Constitution. The Constitution is a legal system based on liberty, not morality. Therefore we need a candidate that is most likely to preserve and obey our legal system, and hopefully clean it up. That means no Patriot Acts of any kind, no wars without Congressional approval, no bargaining with enemies, no expansion of socialist programs, no illegal immigration, and no attacks on any form of religion.

By that standard, that limits us to Huckabee or Rand Paul. Rand's position on Israel is unclear, and Huckabee might be another John McCain when it comes to ISIS.

So, what are we to do? Compromise our integrity in hopes that one of these fools have the right kinda of poker face and a full house in hand?

No. If there is no one willing to uphold the entire law, then they're all criminals in the making. It won't make a bit of difference.

Its all or nothing. If there is no Constitutional integrity, then I don't vote. If that's the case, then so be it, Hillary can get the job for all I care.

USA will either fall or rebound, but either way, it will be very ugly.

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PostPosted: 17 Dec 2015, 02:24 
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Anonynomenon wrote:
I think we should vote based on doctrinal standards, not politics:

Based on Bible doctrine, I have to vote on who will maintain the sovereignty of my nation and uphold the rule of law. That narrows it way down in this election. Internationalism is satanic. American politicians of both parties have either been in bed with Satan on this issue, flirting with him like a shameful hussy, or willfully blind to their responsibility to maintain our sovereignty during most of my life time. They are the traitors, and anyone who cares to look will know who they are.

1) Arrogance is a deal breaker. Even if it is out with good intentions it WILL backfire, and USA can't afford that.

Wow. You've just made illegitimate 99.99999999 of all human government since the beginning of time, based on your personal judgement of one man. I guess King David was completely without arrogance in his reign? Or did God's grace cover him and Israel, despite David's foibles? Trump is no David, but neither is America biblical Israel. And how arrogant have our leaders been up to this point? Arrogant enough to ignore the issues that concern Americans for at least the last 40 years? Your arguments smell like religion to me.

2) As believers, we are commanded to respect the law of our land. That legal system happens to be the Constitution. The Constitution is a legal system based on liberty, not morality. Therefore we need a candidate that is most likely to preserve and obey our legal system, and hopefully clean it up. That means no Patriot Acts of any kind, no wars without Congressional approval, no bargaining with enemies, no expansion of socialist programs, no illegal immigration, and no attacks on any form of religion.

The Constitution is no longer in effect. Sorry. Maybe 10 to 15% is still operational, a few parts and pieces from the bill of rights, but even that is in a watered down form. If the Constitution is still the law of the land, then there is no one left in this country who is not a traitor. Based on the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, this country is not like others: we are the government, the final authority en mass, especially when our elected officials fail to live up to their contract. But we threw that authority away for television, video games, materialism, and pornography---just to name a few of our national distractions. We have already abdicated our country in its traditional form. We are in flux now. Will God's grace prevail now or is it total destruction? That is the question, at least to my way of thinking. I know that these kinds of statements will not be believed and/or just scoffed at. That's too bad. I have no need to prove it. We're living it. But whether the Constitution is in effect or not, this is still our country. Rome still belonged to the Romans after the fall of the Republic. And many of the basic rights of the Romans were sustained after the Republic went away. And for a great while, Christians flourished in the empire. Was the Republic superior? Sure. Is our Republic superior? Sure. But you don't always get what you want. You have to adapt to the time you're in with a doctrine based life.

By that standard, that limits us to Huckabee or Rand Paul. Rand's position on Israel is unclear, and Huckabee might be another John McCain when it comes to ISIS.

We've discussed Rand in another thread, I won't recap. Huckabee is too religious and desperate to be liked. He's a nice man, sure. But nice don't mean shit. All the rest of them, except for three candidates, possibly four if I include Rand, want to be politically correct. Political correctness is socialist/suicidal/Satanic slop for the great American trough, otherwise known as your television. Beware.

So, what are we to do? Compromise our integrity in hopes that one of these fools have the right kinda of poker face and a full house in hand?

lol. Integrity? Again, I smell religion. We should do our duty before God. I'll take His grace over maintaining my personal integrity any day. It is enough that I am honest before Him. My opinion of myself or other humans doesn't really matter.

No. If there is no one willing to uphold the entire law, then they're all criminals in the making. It won't make a bit of difference.

Sorry, whatever happens, the United Boy Scouts of America is not about to be reborn. Nor has it ever existed. You are applying Christian standards on the secular and unbelievers in our national life. Confusing.

Its all or nothing. If there is no Constitutional integrity, then I don't vote. If that's the case, then so be it, Hillary can get the job for all I care.

USA will either fall or rebound, but either way, it will be very ugly.

No, enough mature Christians will either stay the course or we will be destroyed. The country is at our mercy.


My apologies if some of the things have come across as harsh. I'm just being honest with you. I don't have much time and can't really believe I'm still commenting on this thread anyway. lol

TTYL

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"You seem to think because you have chicken to go you're in luck."---G. Lightfoot


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PostPosted: 17 Dec 2015, 03:17 
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@Guest

No human other than Christ is exempt from arrogance, but that is not a licence to make arrogance our policy. And we haven't had a leader with integrity for at least the past 40 years. They have all sold us out to globalism.

Just because our leaders do not respect the law does not give us the right to disregard it. That isn't religion, that is recognition of divine establishment on a personal level. Until the gov't implements its 'Kristallnacht' or until the the Constitution is officially dismantled, it is the law that we are to respect, especially when choosing a leader. Remember how Daniel conducted himself.

If the continuity of our nation depends on the growth of our believers (and it does), then it doesn't matter who gets elected; but how we vote reflects how we individually apply doctrine. That's between the individual and God.

Nevertheless, remember that we are to respect the law, and resist the temptation to elect arrogance as our policy. We've had 40+ years of career Crucaders in this country, I don't have to choose another one.

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PostPosted: 17 Dec 2015, 04:09 
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Anonynomenon wrote:
@Guest

No human other than Christ is exempt from arrogance, but that is not a licence to make arrogance our policy. And we haven't had a leader with integrity for at least the past 40 years. They have all sold us out to globalism.

Just because our leaders do not respect the law does not give us the right to disregard it. That isn't religion, that is recognition of divine establishment on a personal level. Until the gov't implements its 'Crystal Nacht' or until the the Constitution is officially dismantled, it is the law that we are to respect, especially when choosing a leader. Remember how Daniel conducted himself.

If the continuity of our nation depends on the growth of our believers (and it does), then it doesn't matter who gets elected; but how we vote reflects how we individually apply doctrine. That's between the individual and God.

Nevertheless, remember that we are to respect the law, and resist the temptation to elect arrogance as our policy. We've had 40+ years of career Crucaders in this country, I don't have to choose another one.


So Trump has arrogant policy? Is that what you are saying? Specifically, are you referring to his desire to ban Muslims from entering the country? If so, then that in itself is pretty arrogant, considering the circumstances. Every nation has a right to defend itself, its borders, and to regulate who and what it allows within its jurisdiction. Period. Muslims, nor anyone else is guaranteed entrance or have a right to enter. Especially in a time of war. Our laws, including article 6, only apply to citizens. Also, the argument can be made that no Muslim has a right to live in this country if they follow Islam to the letter. Sharia is seditious. Sharia is treasonous. The Constitution cannot survive in any form when we are chalk full of Muslims. Its impossible due to the warring nature of their religion. The Founding Fathers didn't plan for their ancestors to be such raving idiots as to DEMAND these violent hordes be let in. And honestly, who in the last 200 hundred years has planned for that kind of idiocy? Too bad the founding fathers weren't psychic so they could have incorporated into the document something specifically about Muslims. Hell, I'm living in this time, and I still can't believe these barbarians are being imported as fast as possible by our government and the useful idiots in the press. To allow more of them in is out of line for a patriot and treasonous in and of itself. Your comparison to the Crusades is way off. This is not about capturing Jerusalem for the Pope, this is about the total destruction of our country. We are potentially being invaded by people who want to overthrow us and kill/rape/convert us. If you are objecting to policy that could stop them, then that is your political correctness disguised as doctrine. There is nowhere in God's word where a nation must insist on being murdered and call it obedience to doctrine. If anything, our national suicide is our punishment, not our duty.

Excuse me. I have to go vomit now. Seriously, this is too sickening. Religion and political correctness is my kryptonite. I'll do 1:John 1:9 and get back to you later on this maybe, if there is anything new on the horizon. But I didn't think there was anything left to say 10 posts ago. I'm done chewing the cud. A man's got to know his limitations. lol



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"You seem to think because you have chicken to go you're in luck."---G. Lightfoot


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PostPosted: 17 Dec 2015, 04:59 
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@ Guest

I'm sorry if my opinion upsets you, that was not my aim.

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PostPosted: 17 Dec 2015, 05:19 
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Anonynomenon wrote:
@ Guest

I'm sorry if my opinion upsets you, that was not my aim.


No apology required. You have a right to say your piece. We disagree. No big deal. Its just that the subject is starting to make me ill. Physically. Whether I'm simply projecting religion on to your arguments or not, I literally start to feel sick when I contemplate religion for too long at one sitting. Seriously. Religion is deeply troubling to me. Christians have their version of it. The secular world has its. Politics has its. The Muslims have theirs. Suddenly they all fused together for me in this discussion and I had a reaction.

I have to do other things for a while. If there's anything else to say, I'll say it later.

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"Do not worry then, saying, 'What will we eat?' or 'What will we drink?' or 'What will we wear for clothing?'---Jesus Christ


"You seem to think because you have chicken to go you're in luck."---G. Lightfoot


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PostPosted: 17 Dec 2015, 09:50 
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Well, for what it's worth, it seems that the issue for us Christians is really quite different, since we are in essence still here post-salvation, to train as RULERS.

So before God, what RULING do I create vis a vis my job to VOTE for someone?

No matter who the candidate, only God makes good on anything. He makes good on my learning Him, and this RULING VOTE issue is part of that. History is affected by how I vote, not because of the candidate, or the country, etc., but because my RULING is HIS SOVEREIGN TRAINING CHOICE. So He will reward or punish history based on whether I'm learning to well or poorly, rule.

Thus it matters more than humans normally think, to vote well.

God votes all the time: kill this person, save this other one, allow a third to be ill, etc. Thus we learn more about Him via mimicking the same structural behaviors as HE employs as Ruler. Granted, most of our decisions are less impactful: go to the bathroom, write an email, read an article, buy our 19th Maserati.

Viewed from this perspective, we are ruling on who should be president and why, pros and cons (for it's never pure). We vote, and we vote by prayer. That is what really causes history, our own life of voting before HIM, not the actual choices we make. He keys His Sovereign Response to our choices, punning -- but that's to teach.

Efficacy or morality or 'whatever' properties in the person receiving our vote would be important, but ancillary. For God can make good on anything. But He wants us to CHOOSE.

Having said all that, so far I choose against Donald Trump, Cruz, Rand Paul, Rubio, and all the others except maybe Jeb Bush and those of similar positions.. because their positions are what the US needs.

Notice: now I have to justify the vote before God. What justification is there for such a vote so far? How would I argue the case to the Supreme Court of Heaven? The PRACTICE of doing this, trains me in ruling, helps me understand what it's like for GOD, to be God. That blesses the world. Even if I get the vote wrong, the PRACTICE is advancing soul maturation, which blesses the world. The candidate presumably is not living the spiritual life, but he will be blessed by my voting, win or lose.

Salt of the earth. And that's the justification, too: for the US needs to wake up to the fact it's the world's policeman. We got thrust into that role in WWI, and we've not matured in it. So GOD put us here. The issue won't go away, all the other nations are too weak or too enmeshed with their internal politics. We have the guns and butter, despite all the very many arrogant policies, etc. we keep adopting. BECAUSE, we have people here who are maturing spiritually. Not a good percentage, but even if 10 people were in Sodom...

So that is why we are a leader. That's the ONLY reason why. And we've not learned to handle the Destiny handed to us. So, we charge other nations like a bull in a china shop, and then we slink back like a baby, crying how we don't want to play. The latter, has been our position from the beginning.

Sadly, Trump and Paul want the latter position, which is tantamount to leaving Israel to her enemies. Cruz talks tough but just wants to charge in like a bull. Rubio seems to want some version of kumbaya, too much like Obama, which is a kind of withdrawal from our role yet paying lipservice to it. That's how we got into Vietnam.

Jeb Bush wants to continue the prior Bush policy. Just after 9/11, Dubya's stated policy was (if you'll recall), either you're for us or against us. That is strong. However, there was some negotiating room, and coalition was sought. But always the understanding that you decide whether you are in or out. Dubya made it clear from the beginning that the US would be willing to go it alone. We wanted allies, but if none, we'd go ahead anyway.

Remember? As for me and my house, we stand with the Lord, paraphrasing Joshua 24:15.

People criticized Dubya for such an approach, calling him meglomaniacal, Messianicly-arrogant, etc. Because, he wasn't waffling. A clear and strong addition to the Monroe Doctrine thus made by him.. they had to complain. For they are weak. Leaders always get flak. That's part of the maturation process for a leader, is to accept constant complaint (example, Moses).

Had the American people been of the same resolve, then this problem in the ME would have been wrapped up within 10 years. It had a remarkable effect of freeing the people enough to fight their leaders themselves, and had we stayed in the region this fight would be more resolved. It's part of nationbuilding, to engage in factions and civil war, for the nation to find its voice.

Obama interrupted that process, so the terrorist gangs were able to bully with their voice.

So right now, whatever the shortcomings of Jeb, he seems the more in tune with what should be our role.

Kinda doesn't matter about anything else, as we too have lost our own voice. We need to find it, or any policy on anything else, won't work. For 50% of our budget is non-negotiable, for military and social programs. So until we get the ROI needed from a good military policy, which depends on a good LEADERSHIP foreign policy -- we can kiss our economics, good bye. FIGHT FIRST pay later, trust God the meanwhile to provide the means, just as He did in the Valley of Berachah. Which means, FIGHT FOR ISRAEL or forget it.

Or God will have to deliver us out of Sodom.

Now, how right is that assessment? Every day I have to re-evaluate it before God, as I learn new info. That is what a ruler is supposed to do.

So for what it's worth, voting for President is really just another aspect of learning to be President of my own life before God as HE would have it.


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PostPosted: 17 Dec 2015, 13:57 
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Islam is a religion of peace. Ichabod.

http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives. ... 17-11.html

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"You seem to think because you have chicken to go you're in luck."---G. Lightfoot


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PostPosted: 17 Dec 2015, 18:00 
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Yeah, I remember that too. But the condition of negotiation is the removal of Article One of the PLO Charter, I also saw him say that live on TV too. So then I knew he was only playing nice by using the Islam-is-peace gambit.

Playing their game but underneath it's still his. For Article One says 'Israel has no right to exist.' So unless the Arabs agree to that Article's excision, the US won't be agreeing with them.

And, didn't. Israel too, gave Gaza and the West Bank and even Golan, to help prove that the Arabs are lying. That proof is complete now.

So it's time to go in and use the fact we left Iraq too soon, and then just STAY there. So the Arabs have a place they can go to vote with their feet. The government there is discredited, so now we make it a protectorate, are vilified but who cares.

This will turn the Arab spring into summer. Dubya and his advisors had a longterm plan. Now we got the justification for restarting it.

Mind you, if DT sponsored that plan I'd be voting for him. It's never the man but the message. Personally, I can't stand that guy. Politically, if he had the right ME policy I'd vote for him and keep supporting him all I could.

For our future, is the future of the ME. God says that, Gen 12, 15, 17. Every nation who doesn't help Israel, gets cursed.


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PostPosted: 18 Dec 2015, 19:29 
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Frankly, all the candidates aren't worth voting for, as they should never sponsor a BUSINESS TAX. Video here explains why in 11 minutes. I just posted it. You could just read the DESCRIPTION and save the 11 minutes. It should be obvious why no business tax should ever be imposed.

Seriously, I'm totally disgusted with American politics. Prayer is the only thing left. 40 years of business taxes and we still don't understand how that only doubles taxes on the consumer?

So whoever is most pro-Israel I'll hold my nose and vote for. GOD ALONE will deliver her though.


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PostPosted: 18 Dec 2015, 21:04 
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Not sure how "pro-Israel" any of these candidates really are. These people are primarily trying to win the vote of Protestants, so they have to say they are Pro-life, Pro-Israel, and Pro-gun by default. IMO, anyone that wants to meddle with the politics of a sovereign nation (like Israel) is not trying to help; and I'll go as far as to question how "pro-Israel" the Israeli government really is.

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The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


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PostPosted: 18 Dec 2015, 21:21 
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You make good points. All I know is this: we have to BE in the ME permanently. Iraq is the logical and strategic place, and since we went there and need to finish the job we started, it's justifiable politically. Anyone supporting permanent staying or 'indefinite' staying, I'm going to support. And pray intensely.


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