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 Post subject: Revelation 17 Meter
PostPosted: 05 Mar 2017, 03:45 
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[Drum roll] :drummer:

The long awaited Revelation 17 meter: Below is a rough draft. I have not taken the time yet, to look for key words or anaphora, but that's next on my list to verify the sevening. I did include some of the Aleph variants, as they seem to make the sevening work much smoother.

You're gonna love the 490 in verse 10.


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Rev 17 Meter iii.pdf [98.03 KiB]
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Last edited by Anonynomenon on 09 Mar 2017, 07:05, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Revelation 17 Meter
PostPosted: 05 Mar 2017, 07:03 
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Okay, downloading it now, cuz I'm at a complete loss as to Luke 21, which has many anaphora keywords but I can't figure out what they tie to...


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 Post subject: Re: Revelation 17 Meter
PostPosted: 05 Mar 2017, 08:19 
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You will need to know how God orchestrates Time to easily read this post. Written short summary online is here (substitute 'pdf' for 'htm' to read the Greek text); much longer one, here. Videos going through the begats and math are here. Worksheet showing the amalgamated results you can test and edit (in Excel 2003 format, so should be accessible even if you use Linux), is here. Verses used to get the worksheet, are explained here.

Testing for meter first involves the MEANING of the TOTAL. Here, that total is 847. Task is to prove it valid. If valid, then most of the metering you've done, will be right, and any errors have offsets by the time you get to the bottom.

You prove the total valid in terms of WRITER INTENT. Task is to prove the writer INTENDED the total you have.
So that's what this post will attempt to show.

Intent has to be DOCTRINAL, meaning it interfaces with the text and all prior Divine writ. Since this is per Chap22 the last book of the Bible, it's a heady thing to tie to all prior Rev plus prior authors' stuff, in one chapter's meter count. Would require Divine Inspiration, huh.

So our putative total of 847, pretending it is intended, what would it mean?

Well, in Genesis 1, the meter is 1050. Basic Civilization unit, cleverly employed as a pun on when Moses writes, 1050 years after the Flood. Whole chapter is a dateline per verse (maybe also per clause, but I didn't test that much).

Psalm 90, written same year as Gen1, maps out how many 1050s there are, by counting only the 70's sandwiched in between: five of them, with the last one being 56 not 70, cuz it might not happen due to Temple Down. So that extra 14 is in the first section as 63 then 84, the two datelines. Upshot tho: originally, pre-Church, the Plan of Time was 1050x5, or 5250 years. Christ was then supposed to be born 4106 from Adam's fall, 2000 years after Jacob, then die 40 years later, leaving 54 years to 4200 from Adam's fall, at which point the final (Millennial, Ps90:4) 1050 would begin, and the 5250 would complete. After that? Eternity.

It's 57, thus: Abraham matured 53.5 years prior to the elapse of the promised 2100 for the Gentiles. So they are owed that time. Plus, due to reasons I can't yet prove fully, another 3.5 years is owed as Jacob's trouble (not sure what that refs in Jacob's time). So now, 57. But that extra 3.5 gets wiped out during Jacob's time, so back to 54. I haven't yet accounted for what offset the credit, but right now that doesn't matter cuz it ends up resurfacing (q.v.)

You find all this out in Psalm 90's meter structure, and for confirmation of that intent, Isaiah 53 plots a 1078-year calendar of 1st David's birth to last David's death, with one big revision: Christ's birth has to shorten up 3 years owing to 1Kings 6:1 Solomon starting the Temple the 4th year after David died, rather than immediately after David died. So it's still a total of 57 from when Christ is SCHEDULED to die, but starts 3 years earlier to balance to that very SCHEDULE (maybe accounted as 2.5, not sure yet).

So He's born in 4103, not 4106. So the 3-year problem theologians keep having with the Bible's dates and Christ's birth are valid, for this reason. The problem is echoed in the Roman calendar (by mistake), with Varro's errant 753 ab urbe condita 'age of Rome' date for the year Christ was born (which they were then debating, not knowing of Christ) versus Livy's 750 (google on this or just go to livius.org). Augustus liked Varro. So now that same error is in all our dates, which 'just happens' (yeah right) to now coincide with the Bible's change in SCHEDULE.

Quote:
For that's what we're looking at, a SCHEDULE. Be it in Genesis.. or, Revelation. SCHEDULE of Time doesn't mean it will happen ON Time.


So Moses presented the schedule: 4200+Mill of 1050, in Ps90, which equidistantly and simultaneously would have 1050 left to Messiah's birth AFTER the 350 (syllables=years) of the SUM of Ps90 finished, which stood for the period of the Judges. Which Paul confirms, in his accounting in Acts 13:20 or thereabouts. (Theologians independently also came up with that period, but I don't know how they did it.) So when Judges ends, it's 1050 BC. When Saul starts. 40 years later, David becomes king at age 30, so it's easy to know his birth was 1040, hence when Solomon starts building the Temple in 1Kings 6:1, David woulda been 80 years old, so died age 77 (not 70, as scholars claim since they look at Josephus not Bible).

So oh! :eek: Now Christ can't be born ON TIME?? Deadline of time is now 1000 years after DAVID'S DEATH, which is THREE YEARS SHORT!! :eek: Cuz the Day of the Lord can't end before the Last David is BORN!

So Isaiah 53 very deliberately tags the entire meter structure of Psalm 90, to show the update. First 77 syllables, used in the genealogies of Matthew 1 (42) and Luke 3 (77) respectively, are David's life, confirmed by David himself writing at age 77 per his own dateline meter in 2Sam23.

Here's a pair of short videos I did on that; use http://www.brainout.net/Isa53Map.pdf to follow the revised chronology:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJr9PZhlJ9g&index=11&list=PL8523934356BE4BDC


So we have Bible confirmation that Gen1 meter is deliberate, so too Psalm 90 and Isaiah 53, since other Bible writers use and build on, the same meter.

Isaiah 53, however, is only 462 syllables. There are two off-books hiatuses in his prophetic meter, so he can sum to the actual historical time distance from First David's Birth to last David's death:
  • 1st ellipsis is between Isaiah 52:15 (which Luke uses for his 77th son ties), and Isa53:1 (cuz in Hebrew, Isa53 started in 52:13). That ellipsis sum is 252.
  • Second ellipsis is between Isaiah 53:10 and :11, to coincide with the prophesied end of the Book of Malachi which Matthew 1 tags to show he's the next book. That ellipsis, is 364.
  • Sum is multi-entendre: Days Noah in Boat, years Enoch lived (not counting exit day/year, to seven it), PROPHESIED years 1st Temple WILL STAND (actual total, versus its 490 year allotment, HERE PROPHESIED BY ISAIAH, so Israel had 126 years' WARNING prior).

You need all that info to grasp Daniel 9's prayer meter, and God's metered reply (docs are better than the videos, so look in the vid descriptions)..who tags Isaiah 53 to integrate it with the new direct revelation he got from God, since the Man of Time in Daniel 2, 7, updates Isaiah 53, Ezekiel, etc. So Daniel 9's prayer is also metered.. at 750-8, standing for 750 sevens=5250 years - 56. He runs two timelines concurrently to show the jurdicial cause of Temple Down due to Manasseh, keying to Isaiah 53 starting at Temple Down Isaiah 53:4's end, syllable 203 (excluding 252 ellipsis, which is off-books for his own accounting and symmetry to Psalm 90 meters).

So Daniel repackages the meter to show a) yes, what Isaiah predicted is fulfilled, so now will God allow the Temple to be rebuilt since 49 years of the non-observed sabbaticals (Daniel 9's first dateline, means missed sabbaticals since Rehoboam, when you x7 to get total real years elapsed)? Cuz b) another 7 years are due ON that 49, so how can THEY be paid? That's what Daniel is asking, as he knows his petition is about whether the WORLD can go on living.

Well, God's reply in Daniel 9:24-27 shows via Messiah's time EXTENDING the Time during HIS OWN LIFETIME, can those seven years play; so, God's metered reply to Daniel puts those extra seven years as.. TRIBULATION. So the first seven if and when paid, can trigger the second to be paid, so the time owed the Gentiles can be fulfilled as well as those extra sabbatical years now accruing on the elapsed 49.

Quote:
Thus you have the SCHEDULE BALANCING precedence for Church: MESSIAH DYING EARLY means some kind of time extension can only happen IN HIM, so unless a NEW BODY is created IN HIM.. the world ends. So all the IN HIM verses in the NT are Rapture verses, for HIS BODY has to COMPLETE before Jewish Time can resume. So you see, the Rapture doctrine is all over the NT, but its keywords are missed, since the dummies used lunar years rather than solar, when accounting the 62 weeks in Daniel 9. Oh well.

So now you know why the only virgin apostle, Paul -- was obsessed with equating Church to pregnancy (Greek keyword Pleroma, means to fill up a ship or a woman with 'cargo') every chance he got (Gal 4:4, :19, Rom 8:10-19, etc, using musterion keyword as a synonym for pregnancy and mothering.. which preterists find a mystery since they are carnal). Christ is PREGNANT with us, so when we are DELIVERED, Jewish time can resume, theme of Hebrews, esp Hebrews 11:39-40 (which I now bet Luke or Mark wrote). So instead of the lame KJV 'fullness of times' you should translate it the PREGNANCY of times, about to deliver at ANY time, last trimester. Which, the prolifer will never understand, since they can't even read the sequence of Gen2:7. But I digress...

Complex, huh. But beautiful. As you can see, the biggest takeaway is that INTENT of BALANCING TIME is really evident in the meters.

So: if unlike the scholars you actually did the math right, the 1000th anniv of David's death is 37AD. That's the end of Isaiah 53, too. That's the end of Daniel 9:26, too, in EXPLICIT TEXT. But instead, the dippy Dispies go with The Coming Prince by Sir Robert Anderson (a 19th century book, click here).. using LUNAR YEARS versus the Bible's command to use SOLAR years in Exodus 12 (Passover is Israel's birthday, can't hit your birthday annually EXCEPT using SOLAR years). So they get the math wrong.

Thieme did that too, but always questionned the result he got (end of Daniel series). So then one must hallucinate the 476 as 483 (476 solar years equals 483 lunar), and then hallucinate that the 'king' rather than God did the decreeing for rebuilding Jerusalem, and then hallucinate that rebuilding only the walls is rebuilding the whole city.. so can shoehorn all these errors into a claim that Artaxerxes I the Persian king over Nehemiah, issued some decree (of which there is none, Bible shows Nehemiah was merely granted permission, and the walls were rebuilt in 52 days, see Nehemiah 6:15). Thereby getting ALL the math of Daniel 9, WRONG.

Ooops. So for centuries, the theologians, whether preterist or Dispy, missed the obvious fact that Christ dies SEVEN YEARS EARLY. So that extra 7 on the 49, is NOT made up, so the Tribulation is EXTRA seven years, so the Temple must REMAIN the extra 40 years to balance Israel's time and yet Church must start when Christ dies or THERE WILL BE NO JUSTIFICATION FOR GRANTING TIME AT ALL.

So where are we? Christ thus actually dies 7 years early, at 4136 after Adam's Fall, which you'd know if you did the begats.. it's not from creation, but his fall, when God started to NUMBER HIS DAYS, Genesis 3:22 (mimmenu, clever way to say Adam is BORN SEPARATED from God due to his fall).

So what happens to the 5250 originally planned? Well, since any new time must be IN Christ, HE himself announced how that new time would play, in Matt24-25. When you crunch the math, you get the new total:

  • 4136+1 since He's in that year (talking at its start, the vernal equinox, will die two weeks later, Matt26ff), plus
  • 3213, the number of syllables=years in the deathbed prophecy He's giving there, equals
  • 7350. Which, Talmud written much later, confirms (including His 40-year allotment for living), in Sanhedrin 97-99, which ties back to Psalm 90 and pan-Bible allotments of (google the italic phrases) 2000 years for the goyim, 2000 years for the Jews, and (newly, I bet due to Matt24-25), then Messiah comes (yep, He did!) then 2000 years belong to MESSIAH and then the Psalm 90:4 Millennium comes.
  • So now the new total is? 7350.

Yeah, but that's in Talmud (garbled version, 2100 should be used not 2000). How to prove it in Bible, other than Matt24-25? Aha.

Well, first, Eph1 and Luke 21 both play to it, but for shorter periods of time, covering the fall of Rome-West. Mark 13 plays to it, covering the fall of Rome-East, since there will be TWO Romes, starting @Constantine. Which future guy, all three chapters focus on, as did Matt24-25, by means of anaphora keywords which nest like Russian dolls, using Trinity meter (Paul) or sevening meter like Matt24-25 does (Luke 21 and Mark 13).

Which, John knows and plays to, in his text and meter. How do we know? Well, look:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7atdymuLq4&list=PL1bv_xPIih3fs-vKfMgiVbt4fmi3Xs3Yf&index=96


So now, back to 847, Rev17 total meter. You'll notice, if your eyes haven't glazed over by now -- and they will, mine do too whenever I do this meter stuff -- you'll notice, that Daniel 9's total based on Psalm 90's total for Time, was 5250, expressed as 750 sevens, but 56 were still in doubt, the sevening version of 57 years (54+3.5 owing to Solomon's delay in building 1st Temple, no longer due to something in Jacob's life). So, Daniel's ending meter was 750-8=742.

John's 847, is much higher, but lookie: 1050 sevens=7350. So why 847 not 1050? Aha. Let's break it down, too:
  • 847x7=5929, which is 679 more than 5250,
  • 1421=203x7, less than 7350,
  • so subtract Millennium 1050, and
  • 371 remains. Then subtract the 364 meter used in Rev1 to tag Paul's 'Year of Church' in Eph1:3-14, which equals also the hiatus in Isaiah 53 between verses 10 and 11, the number of years 1st Temple stood, so a parallelism is made to Church cuz Paul said 'two walls' in Ephesians 2.. and
  • 7 remains. Which, is the Trib: just ending here in Rev17.

So John balances to the syllable counts in Matt24-25, Ephesians, and the first-1050 offshoots in Luke 21 for the West, and Mark13 in the East, all by means of that same 847. Which helps the reader know yes, this text really is from God, who could craft the words so well to balance time from Genesis to Revelation? See, Scripture is self-identifying. You don't need some scarlet beast of prelates puffing themselves up (and getting it all WRONG anyway) to tell you what books are God's Word.

So now you have the final word on when the Rapture happens: WHEN IT HAPPENS, methusaleh. Can't predict when, as 'Year' is a metaphor, to parallel Noah's days in Das Boot. His days were literal, that's why we use YEAR; his days were precedent FOR our year, namely the fact he was born on Passover but made to wait 57 days before entering the boat, details here.

So all those date-setters can go do something else, for any day can be YOUR deathday anyhow. But the point is, GROW UP cuz you don't know the day or hour of your death, or of the Rapture, and it always CAN be TODAY, Hebrews 3. Bible takes a long time to learn, and learning it IS the GOOD that GOD makes of you, as HE likes hearing YOU learn so YOUR thinking becomes LIKE CHRIST's.. since you are IN Him, so the goal is for HE to be in YOU as you are in HIM, Galatians 4:19, etc.

Now, Church is not learning Him. They learn religion. They learn Works. So FAKE CHURCH in Rev17 is a continual trend Satan deploys to SLOW DOWN TIME and hopefully, as he did with Israel, get Church to REJECT Christ before all the humans Christ paid to be IN Him.. are born/developed. To ABORT, is Satan's goal. So all the prolifers busy aborting the Word of God to drool over Caesar, are rejecting Christ. So Satan wins with them. And with his Fake Church as here shown in Rev17, he can keep his own jail sentence in the future.

Got it?


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 Post subject: Re: Revelation 17 Meter
PostPosted: 05 Mar 2017, 13:38 
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AUDIO VERSION of the first draft of my post (using Firefox add-in Text to Voice, which is gorgeous), is here: http://www.brainout.net/wma/Rev17post.mp3 . It is the same as the 1st draft, read 'aloud' from reading the text. So if I later change the post, those revisions won't be in the audio.

I decided to leave the post intact except for the first sentence, so the audio will remain the same.

So now the next q: how do I know the 847 is x7? Easy-peasy: meters stack. So 847-364= (drum roll please) 483. Sound familiar? Like in Daniel 9:26, all but the Trib counted? They're called 'weeks' (literally, 'sevens'), so x7. Duh.


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 Post subject: Re: Revelation 17 Meter
PostPosted: 05 Mar 2017, 17:51 
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Now, to the variants. You counted kai in v.10, and ten in v.13.
The kai is not in any actual ms of value; TR used it, and that's not an ms but a critical edition. So including it won't wash with the scholars.

The ten is in the first Aleph but only a few others. To include it stresses the type of authority given, as SEPARATE, so that's a doctrinal difference. It's more tenable, but scholars could easily dispute it, since it's in so few other manuscripts.

The bigger reason to exclude it, is grammar and context of prohibited oneness. Granville Sharp rule has one article covering more than one item to prove the two are related, so power and authority really are not separated: so no ten should be there, as lack of separation of power/authority is the problem stressed. The illegal unity is already indicated by the ten fronting dunamin. Same idea as pastor-teacher, no second article means it's all the same person/thing. So should be ten dunamin kai exousian to show all-in-one, which is the abomination being warned against.

BTW, that's what felled Rome: Augustus was all in one, no succession plan, and therefore the only succession that resulted was the army.

So now:
if we leave out kai in v.10, change sophia back to its classical three syllables which have no Hebrew counterpart so would not be susceptible to slurring, then v.9 is 449, and all the others are 1 higher till 10b, which is now one lower so still tallies to 490, tho I'm not sure it should. But for now, could leave it be.

John uses sophia a lot, it has a well-established name and Greek lit is full of it; but it's only used that once in Rev17.

As for v.13, leaving ten out, syllables from 13b through end 14 go down one. Remove elision from 15a's ἃ εἶδες because the sounds are too different, and the alliteration is intended (three a's, unholy, alphaprivative negative sound). So then 15a ends up staying 684.

There might be other changes needed, but those two would at least be needed since the mss nor grammar support including them. Variants I gave you have to be mentioned, but I didn't see one which ought to be included, on grammar grounds.

Biggest point to remember: don't force a sevening. Especially here, since frankly the sevening should only occur at the end (guessing). If it naturally occurs, then by the clause counts you can see why and where, cuz usually the writers pair clauses to have same syllable counts as a type of tagging.

Text sevens for a lot of different reasons, not merely to show spiritual growth. Here, the point is NO growth, but the Plan of God still works. So yeah, there might be a 490, 560 etc. to denote the Time Allotment, but we don't yet know if this is predicting specific future history like the Matt24-25/Eph1/Luke21/Mark 13 did. Maybe it does, in which case the meters will 'tag' those passages by sometimes having the same values. But don't force that, either. Just let the meter reveal itself as you do it first assuming no ellisions, unless you get tongue-tied without them. Then see what pattern results.

This is hard to do. It's tedious work. Had we all been raised on the meter since childhood, it would instead be fun.


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 Post subject: Re: Revelation 17 Meter
PostPosted: 05 Mar 2017, 20:08 
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There could be more than one way to meter it. If I remove 28 of the elisions, it still sevens at 28 higher and then v.1 sevens at 21, from the getgo. We don't get the 490, maybe, but I'm not sure that's the point. I forget if John used 21 before, but other writers did. The 56 would be lost, but a second dateline results of 70 (68 becomes 70), and the two still sum 91, as they should.

But that isn't to imply the alternative is right or better. In fact, the 19 you get at 17:1 is 89-19=70, Temple Down. John always measures from Temple Down in his first clause, whether it sevens or not; he then piggybacks to measure from the last time he wrote, to tie back to his own letters; again whether it sevens or not.

Gonna play with it some.


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 Post subject: Re: Revelation 17 Meter
PostPosted: 05 Mar 2017, 20:10 
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Quote:
The ten is in the first Aleph but only a few others. To include it stresses the type of authority given, as SEPARATE, so that's a doctrinal difference. It's more tenable, but scholars could easily dispute it, since it's in so few other manuscripts.

The bigger reason to exclude it, is grammar and context of prohibited oneness. Granville Sharp rule has one article covering more than one item to prove the two are related, so power and authority really are not separated: so no ten should be there, as lack of separation of power/authority is the problem stressed. The illegal unity is already indicated by the ten fronting dunamin. Same idea as pastor-teacher, no second article means it's all the same person/thing. So should be ten dunamin kai exousian to show all-in-one, which is the abomination being warned against.


I was thinking that exact thought. I really didn't want to add it in the first place, but I got to point where I thought something was missing.

So, I'll:

1) expand σοφίαν (I was hesitant about eliding that too),

2) drop τὴν and καὶ.

3) trade out the three occurrences of ἃ εἶδες for μίαν (maybe? but Matt 24 didn't do it).

4) then maybe expand βλασφημίας (I was hesitant about that too).

or

alt-3) Leave ἃ εἶδες, μίαν unelided, and instead elide τιμίῳ in vs 4b (χρυσίῳ is already elided, I just for got to mark it).

alt-4) In which case, we can leave βλασφημίας elided, but then με εἰς would have to be elideds (which I'm not sure is correct).

Let me know what you think of those possibilities. I'll try it later, as it will take some time to change the totals.

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 Post subject: Re: Revelation 17 Meter
PostPosted: 05 Mar 2017, 20:25 
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Do what you think best. Seriously. The real first purpose of doing this at all, is to build the bi-directional connection between God and you, which is John 14:26 in operation. To get used to knowing what He's directing, rather than a bad dinner, the demon boys trying to interfere 'from the peanut gallery' as the Col. used to put it, etc.

It's trial and error, hard cuz we're trying to RECOVER long lost knowledge.

BTW, your pdf looks STUNNING on my Android phone. I'm using XODO to download and read it. It has no ads.

Lemme give you an example of what John is doing here, a rolling dateline chain like Moses did in Gen1:

Hi, I'm writing you 19 years after Mark wrote his gospel, 19th year after Temple Down (70 AD+19, but John's still at year 18, anniv hasn't happened yet)
which (70 AD) was 44 years after The Lord began His Ministry,
which Ministry (27 AD) ended at his Death Age 33, which was 56 years ago,
so now He shoulda been age 91 at Tribulation Start but (cuz He's 92 when John writes), it didn't start on time and that's why I'm writing you
.

John also switches between Lord's Age year and Adamic year.


Last edited by brainout on 07 Mar 2017, 19:33, edited 1 time in total.
Corrected meaning of '19' in John's meter, which at first I misunderstood


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 Post subject: Re: Revelation 17 Meter
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2017, 15:01 
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So now look: Rev17:1, first clause metered at 19. Stands for the 19th year after Temple fell, AND 19 years after Mark wrote his Gospel. Cuz that's the last book which dealt with prophecy, prior to John.

56th year since Christ died at age 33, at start April. Chislev 88 AD is when John writes, cuz he's writing just BEFORE Christ turns age 92. It will become 89 AD in 28 days.

This becomes handy then. To balance to Matthew21/Luke21/Mark13 meter, you just add 56. Cuz all of them dated their chapters to 30 AD/Christ age 33 for the content.


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 Post subject: Re: Revelation 17 Meter
PostPosted: 06 Mar 2017, 16:45 
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When you're in the mood, you gotta reparse verses 1, 5, 16-18 by clause. Point is to find where the sevening really is, if any, but bigger point to find where John ties to Matt24, Eph1, Luke21, Mark 13 meters. Since John is writing 56 years after them (using Christ age 33), his meters will end up being 56 less than theirs, to tie. In the case of tying to Paul, John's meters have to be converted to AD first, by usually adding 87 or 88 (depending on beginning or ending of year in the meter he's tying to).

847 is the sum of 364 in Chap 1 (cuz John gaslights his meters) plus (drum roll please) 483, so he's playing on the meaning of 69 weeks. So all he need do is tag the METERS of the prior prophetic chapters.

It's not that he doesn't tie at all as if a timeline, cuz 847+89AD (since he writes at the end of 88) is 936 AD, when OttoI comes to power over Germany, and shortly thereafter begins an attempt of marriage alliance with Constantine VII, who was illegally under the thumb of Nikephoros.

Moreover, at John's Rev17:15 syll 711, end of καὶ τὰ δέκα κέρατα, that's when Charlemagne is crowned head of the revived Holy Roman Empire by a pope newly disenchanted by Irene running Byzantium for her kid Constantine VI. He had at least 10 kids&grandkids&greatgrandkids who became kings; Bible likens 'horns' to progeny.

Before that, the other big emperor Matt24/Luke21/Matt13 (especially) targeted, was Justinian, who ruled 527-565, and explicitly aimed to revive Rome. So lookie here: start of his reign is marked in Rev 17:8 as the beast who will come (439+88=527 in AD). He makes Byzantine Empire reach its widest extent by 565 (with territories lost quickly after he dies), so could you say seven kings under him then (John ends 477=565 just after hepta in 17:11)? Sure. More than seven, depends on how you package them. But that's not so much the point as he explicitly aimed to revive Rome so it's a good posterboy example for what John's being given, if the angel is doing a timeline.

Same as what the parallels in Matt24, Luke21, Matt13 say, with different text. These two events of Justinian and Charlesmagne are anaphoric centers tagged by Luke and Mark to Matt24 and each other; so it makes sense John would tag them, too. Actually, Otto is also tagged in the 910 meter which Luke and Mark share.

So look at the text in Rev17:
17:5 Diocletian and Constantine
:9-10 Justinian I
:15-18 Carolingians
:18 Otto, at verse end (just comes to power)

Now, the Carolingians did a massive reform at education wanting everyone to get Bible, and put Alcuin in charge of it, but still they let themselves be beholden though warily, to the Western Pope. Their idea was the same as Constantine's, to sponsor the religion to control it. So really that's the backdrop on how to read Rev17, the kings yes use religion for their power, but also to control it so it doesn't seize power over them. But of course eventually the religion will seize power, i.e., the little horn in Daniel 7 as elaborated on in Daniel 11.

So now parsing by clause is much more important, as it will help us see how John tags the before and after of each.


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PostPosted: 07 Mar 2017, 15:25 
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LOL you're right about 490 at verse 10. Changes the identity of the five fallen, maybe, to Babylon, Persia, Greece, Constantine, Justinian (which JUST HAPPENS prior to v.10). And there 'is' someone who replaces J then, ruling until the 578 where the 490 ends (Justin II).. and the one yet to come will still be, plus whoever the Trib anti-Christ is, since this is GroundHog Day prophecy.

Add 88 to the numbers, see for yourself. J dies 565 (just before eisin in v.9).

Cleverer still, because J lived so long, Rev17:10's 490 tags that number in Matt, which antedates Justinian by SEVEN YEARS (equidistance). Justinian built the Nea Theotokos (google it), a temple to MARY atop the HoH. Patriarch of Jeru started to build it 7 years earlier but hadn't enough money.

Cleverer still, since John's writing in the 7th year prior to Mill (6 years remain, but starting the count with 88, count it as 1 on your fingers, 94 is 7th), so he's adjusting for pre-Church Mill date. So 490 years from when he writes ties to both post-and-pre-Church Mill 490s. So OF COURSE the next clause is seven syllables.

Exhausting but fulfilling.


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 Post subject: Re: Revelation 17 Meter
PostPosted: 09 Mar 2017, 07:06 
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Ok. I reparsed and changed some elisions in Rev 17. The new document is in the opening post of the thread.

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 Post subject: Re: Revelation 17 Meter
PostPosted: 09 Mar 2017, 08:57 
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Looks good. Still need to parse 8a, 9b, 12b into clauses. Thank you! It's amazing how this fits the history.


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 Post subject: Re: Revelation 17 Meter
PostPosted: 09 Mar 2017, 10:15 
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Revised the pdfs to ref Rev17 meter, not fully but enough to see the wit,
http://www.brainout.net/Matt24-25ParsedR6.pdf
http://www.brainout.net/Luke21Meter.pdf
http://www.brainout.net/Mark13MeterR.pdf

Just search on 'Rev' to find the tags. They won't have to change after you reparse by clause, since I counted the tags by meter number in Rev17, like I'd bet the ancients all did.


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 Post subject: Re: Revelation 17 Meter
PostPosted: 09 Mar 2017, 10:48 
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Constantine's death is at BdeLUGma, so he's deemed an abomination
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 Post subject: Re: Revelation 17 Meter
PostPosted: 10 Mar 2017, 08:09 
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I think I'm gonna de-Hebraise the meter to see what happens. Seems that the intent is to get to Otto I's crowning as Holy Roman Emperor, since he's the quintessential Daniel 11 making-marriage-alliances guy. Charlemagne was, too, but not so strongly. OttoII was married off to a Byzantine princess named Theophanu who ended up being regent to her son, Otto III. That kid (and he died at 21, no issue) actually literally tried to revive Rome.

The other reason why I'm doing it, is that the angel seems to be using Classical Greek. So I wanna see what difference it makes.


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 Post subject: Re: Revelation 17 Meter
PostPosted: 12 Mar 2017, 12:43 
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Still working on the classical-Greek style of syllable counts in Rev17. It doesn't seven AT ALL after 252, until the end; when it ends, it tags a WOMAN who would be called a 'scarlet empress'. Moreover, the Rev17 meter when converted to AD and then compared to Mark 13, precisely tags Mark13's meter at least three times. To the same YEARS. Same rulers as in his nested anaphora for huios and kurios, but John's using gune and therion.

Oh: and like Mark, John consigns a ruler's death or even accession to 'kai' (cutting off kaiSER). Really biting.

I've not tracked any tags in Matt24 and Eph1, Luke 21, nor have I yet looked for other anaphora keywords.

Rev17 becomes so clear once the meter is used to derive the years.


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 Post subject: Re: Revelation 17 Meter
PostPosted: 15 Mar 2017, 11:48 
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Redid the meter assuming Classical Greek pronunciation (elision and hiatus), http://www.brainout.net/Rev17Meter.pdf . Also redid the others to show Rev17 tagging, though the Rev17 has the accumulated tags to these others, highlighted in yellow:

http://www.brainout.net/Matt24-25ParsedR6.pdf
http://www.brainout.net/Luke21Meter.pdf
http://www.brainout.net/Mark13MeterR.pdf


Also annotated the ties Rev17 makes to Ephesians 1, tho I didn't annotate John's 231, 238, and 252 tags to Eph, yet. Not sure why those tags are used.

Haven't also yet populated Rev17 with all the historical benchmarks he's making. So check back here later for redownloading the docs as they will be further revised and the names will remain the same.

All are now available in the downloads directory (public access), http://www.brainout.net/downloads

Still have to reconcile how John benchmarks the 490, 560, cuz it seems he's doing it 4 ways so it won't seven but will reconcile. The point of the chapter is that there is little to no growth after Constantine, so he's avoiding sevening. It sevens at the end on a pun of the two Theophanu gals who both end up Empresses, and are both related to at least ONE Emperor, themselves. Very witty.

There are many intra-doc links to outside ONLINE writeups on the people tagged, so you can see the ties and the text within one document.


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 Post subject: Re: Revelation 17 Meter
PostPosted: 15 Mar 2017, 22:35 
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Examples of how Rev17 reconciles to 490s by his meter counts:
403=491 AD, start of the new 490 post Christ's BIRTH, like Paul framed his. I wondered about that.

438=432+6. Reconciles to 520 AD, a 490 from Christ's death (432+88 AD when John writes) and to the historical 490 that should have begun had there been no Church (+6 to get to 4200FAF, then start 490 over again). That one I tracked in GeneYrs.xls.

479=567 AD, which is 560 from Christ's BIRTH again, but adjusted for the extra 6 as done above (7 when starting at the new year after close).

496 Blatant 490+6 to tie to the 490 beginning after 4200 FAF, from when he writes, 6th year before 4200.

503=591 AD, 2nd 490 start after voting period which began 520 AD, so measured as a 1050 from the Cross.

This way he reconciles to the 490s without sevening the text. Cuz the text is about the harlot, so shouldn't seven.

He does seven, but every time he does up to 252, he matches someone's text in prior Divine writ, with that number. I'm not sure how his text interacts with what he tags, yet.

John is something of a nerd about multiple reconciliations. I noticed that but didn't understand it when seeing Rev1; maybe now I'll be able to figure it out.


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 Post subject: Re: Revelation 17 Meter
PostPosted: 16 Mar 2017, 08:09 
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I tested the meter assuming no elisions or hiatus since the raw total is 875; all the tags, with, keyword ties to history disappear. Classical Greek then, as Rev is a play done in Classical Greek tradition, and Fake Church rules now and in the Trib, so no Hebraisms.

So if there are any remaining errors, they cancel out often.


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 Post subject: Re: Revelation 17 Meter
PostPosted: 19 Mar 2017, 17:24 
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Have fully populated the meter entries for the classical-Greek assumption of Rev17 meter now, http://www.brainout.net/Rev17Meter.pdf . Also redid the others, so in the above post their links need to be used, again. Now I feel comfortable about the meter being mostly correct, but am still puzzling over 868's meaning. It's probable that he has another 56 in ellipsis after it, which would make the total equal 560 +364, but since he's writing in 88 AD I don't know what he's trying to say with that total.

Turns out the Great City is indeed Constantinople, not only because it's where Rev 17:18 occurs (and there is no other Roman Empire at that point, the HRE was in flux until 962); but because VIKINGS NAMED IT THAT, per J.B. Bury, The Christian Roman Empire and the Foundation of the Teutonic Kingdoms, Location 957 of my Kindle copy of his Chapter I, should be half way through chapter. As Bury explains, the Northmen called it Miklagard, which means Great City.

In short, Rev17:18 predicted what the Vikings would call it, and is very PRECISE as to what the Great City is, cuz the meter for those words is 939AD (end clause), time of Constantine VII and the Viking explorations; same period is the anaphoric center in Mark 13 (syll 910) tagging Luke 21. The same text as in the clause just prior in Mark, is in Matt24, just after its own clause ending in 901.

So that's a pretty clear definition of what the GREAT CITY is.


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 Post subject: Re: Revelation 17 Meter
PostPosted: 25 Mar 2017, 00:02 
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Update: I'm comfortable with Rev17 and Mark 13 meter meanings, though there is more to flesh out as to why they mark those kings so satirically. But Luke 21 and Matt24-25 connections still elude me, even though I generally know what they tag.

Am reading up on history to see what possible clues might turn up.


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 Post subject: Re: Revelation 17 Meter
PostPosted: 10 Apr 2017, 18:45 
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Revelation 17 Sarcasm Tour videos are up, start here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ku1Ewuuzok&index=124&list=PL1bv_xPIih3fs-vKfMgiVbt4fmi3Xs3Yf


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 Post subject: Re: Revelation 17 Meter
PostPosted: 17 Jul 2017, 20:08 
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Went back to re-examine Rev1 meter. It so happens that the 42 dates backwards to Claudius expelling Jews from Rome (45 AD, ref'd in Book of Acts), and the 70 another prior expulsion but Tiberius did it (19 AD, and they went to Sardinia). So John equates his being on Patmos, which was also due to expulsion. Not clear how it related to Domitian, but D did do a witch hunt in Rome proper. John wasn't there. Usually when these things happen, the rest of the Empire variantly has its local rulers expel Jews/Christians (not under Emperor orders but as an excuse or to curry favor or avoid being accused themselves). Probably wasn't just one time per Roman expulsion, either.

Ties to the text, since the theme is about how Jews and Christians are to be persecuted, the meter theme functions as an elab on what Christ said in Matt24. Clever how the text is matched to the meter, first being 'signified by sending' (for Claudius, since that's what an expulsion also is), and 'who testifies to the Word of God' (meaning John, thereby tying his own current exile to the Tiberius time, could be autobiographical of his family origin).


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 Post subject: Re: Revelation 17 Meter
PostPosted: 24 Jul 2017, 17:36 
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Update: I missed another anaphora, blepw/horaw, in Rev17. There are seven of them, and distances between each occurrence of the verb are also divisible by 7. I checked the timeline of each one, and John uses the anaphora like Mark did, to denote emperor death but with stress on what the SUCCESSOR SEES. The emperors tagged were
  • Septimius Severus (v.3) when he finally defeated his enemies,
  • Constans/ConstantiusII (same idea but v6),
  • Justin I (religious enemies, v8),
  • Constans II (same, v12),
  • Charlemagne (reforming monasteries and nego to marry w/Byz, v.15),
  • Louis the Pius, upon his accession as HRE (v16),
  • ending with OttoI pre-crowning HRE, upon his accession in 930 (v17).

What's notable about the years marked by the placements of the verbs, is that obscure but important changes RELATIVE TO THE REV17 THEME, take place then. For example, Charlemagne died in 814, but Louis wasn't CROWNED BY THE POPE until 816. Charlemagne's wife died just before he's tagged (she had a de factor co-emperor role in his absence, bore him 9 kids and died at age 29 in childbirth).

Most importantly, the timeline in Rev17, which stops at the 956 marriage of Romanos II and Theophanu in the East, is the cause of another Theophanu (BORN THE SAME YEAR), who ends up marrying Otto II in the West. That matters, cuz Otto I's big claim to fame was the subordination of the monks and other clerics to serve the STATE. There's also the myth of Christ coming back (Last Emperor Myth, now a big thing in RUSSIA), which accounts for the timing of Charlemagne's crowning BY THE POPE as the replacement Basileus (replacing Irene). Idea was they expected Christ to return so were trying to unify Church and State for that reason.

Not much different between the US Christians backing Trump and the #ThirdRome Russians backing Putin, today. The latter practice persecution of non-Orthodox Christians. So too, back in those prior years denoted per blepw/horaw anaphora.

I'll have to add more videos to integrate the import of these added anaphora.


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