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Tribulation Sequence
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Author:  brainout [ 17 Nov 2015, 07:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tribulation Sequence

Well, the idea is to parse until it stops metering in even sevens, starting with the first word in the chapter. Of course, the problem is, the 'chapter' might not be right, since the writer didn't use that, example of how Isaiah 53 doesn't start at 53:1, but in 52:13 (samex is at the end of 52:12). So you have to look at the syntax of the prior 'chapter' to see where the real chapter begins, and then start your count.

Then see what the patterns are per CLAUSE, not per verse, like I show in each of the meter videos. There will be a pattern. The first two sevenings are datelines, and the rest goes on until it totals out at some ultimate seven, and then the meter count stops, the rest of the chapter is just plain text.

Here, you've got with elisions, a potential first dateline; you have to keep going until it stops sevening to be sure that's a dateline, even. John is very precise about his dating system, and frankly he uses each clause for the date (though doesn't have to). He might not be using a dateline at all, since he's already disclosed in the text that Rev is a vision; so presumably happens all in one day, like any good Greek play's time backdrop (hahaha, Day of the Lord vision on the Lord's Day, get the pun). For his vision is a Greek quadrilogy, Chaps 1-3=Church; 4-18 Trib; 19-20 Mill; 21 Eternity; 22:6ff, Epilogue.

So here,
15 years after/before x and
10 years after/before y and
12 years after/before z,
11 years after/before aa
and so on.
John might instead use the more traditional dating system, in which case
63 years after/before n and/or
63 sevens after/before b,

So then what are the events tagged by these meters? THAT is the sleuthing needed. The answers are deliberate choices which elucidate the doctrinal meaning of the text.
  • 63 years back means nothing.
  • Can't go forward, he's writing only 6 years from the expected Mill =94AD=Christ age 97.
  • 63 sevens back, Philip of Macedon invaded Thessaly and that didn't work out too well:
  • so does John thus tag Daniel 9's meter timeline end point, so to incorporate by reference all of Daniel 9-12?
  • Possibly. For his text will concern a new world conqueror who will actually be the 'son' of (the anti-christ indwelt as a son of the indweller). And of course, Rev 7:1 is still Day One of the Tribulation, so 70-7. But then, you already knew that. :thumbup:
See? Likewise, each of the variables xyz etc. and nb if used, must be Biblically significant dates. For the numbers are always used to elucidate the meaning of the text, just as Moses, Isaiah, and Daniel do with their meters:
  • Moses writes Genesis1/Psalm90 in the 1050th year after the Flood, when he's 119 years old (just before the year of his death); his total pre-Christ meter in Gen 1 is 1050, so it's played to his theme for Genesis: idea of first civilization unit, origin of the people of Messiah. Notice the equidistance: Moses' terminus leaves 1050 years until Messiah born. (2666 FAF +40 = when he writes, +350 for judges = meter in Psalm 90, +1050=4106, Christ's then scheduled birth +91+7 ellipsis=Mill then-scheduled start in His 98th year; He ends up being born 3.5 years earlier, but potentially could have still been born 4106 From Adam's Fall, when Moses writes.) :flamehead:
  • Isaiah writes 42 sevens from David's birth and from Moses endpoint (plus 10); and, in the 42nd year of his own ministry. Metrical theme is first David's birth to last David's death, 1078 (with ellipses counted), and :idea:
  • Daniel writes 49 years after the Temple went down and 73 sevens from Moses' Psalm 90 endpoint (of 1050BC); Daniel's 742 sevens (x7=1050-56), subsevened into the numbers God will use textually in REPLY, piggybacks on Isaiah using the actual history of kings from David at Hebron to his own captivity then forward to the time of the the Greeks (stopping at what would become Philip of Macedon), petitioning for Temple Restoral given God's promise of the Prophesied Ancient of Days Christos winning, in the end.
So John will be metering on a theme which is doctrinally significant to the text, to elucidate what that text means. Here, the four angels told to hold back the winds (which creates a calamity on earth). If the 63 is right, it means VOTE SHORT, and of course since the Trib is 7 and that's why it occurs, you can well argue that the meter is doctrinally-significant to the text so is likely right.. but you have to keep metering, to see for sure. There has to be some discernible pattern, as noted above for Moses, Isaiah, Daniel.
Rev 7:1 Μετὰ τοῦτο εἶδον τέσσαρας ἀγγέλους ἑστῶτας 15
ἐπὶ τὰς τέσσαρας γωνίας τῆς γῆς, 10

κρατοῦντας τοὺς τέσσαρας ἀνέμους τῆς γῆς,

ἵνα μὴ πνέῃ ἄνεμος ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς

μήτε ἐπὶ τῆς θαλάσσης

μήτε ἐπὶ πᾶν δένδρον

Total 63

7:1 And after these things I saw four messengers, standing upon the four corners of the land, holding the four winds of the land, that the wind may not blow upon the land, nor upon the sea, nor upon any tree;
I was poking around in Revelation 7 and found what looks like metering. Found some in Revelation 8 too. I was trying to focus on the sealing of the 144K. I'm pretty sure its all metered. I just wonder where a good starting point would be for sequence? Would it be with the 144K or with the Trumpets, or maybe Chapters 9 & 11 like you suggested? Not sure.

Author:  Anonynomenon [ 17 Nov 2015, 18:23 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tribulation Sequence

I'm might continue metering Rev 7. I figured the "meta touta" was a good starting place. Do you see a better starting place based on syntax?

Author:  brainout [ 17 Nov 2015, 18:28 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tribulation Sequence

Agreed, John subdivides his text using meta tauta. Here, split screen TV, blocking off the Trib from Church age (last meta tauta was at Rev 4:1, same moment in time, so first day of Trib). So it's a great place to start.

Here are the verses using the phrase: Rev. 1:7, 19; 4:1; 7:1, 9; 9:12; 15:5; 18:1; 19:1, 20:3.

Author:  hupostasis [ 21 Nov 2015, 20:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tribulation Sequence

In all those dippy Trib movies, that's one theme they get right. Granted, we believers are pretty stupid, self-righteous and snarky, but we don't deserve the vehemence or the level of criticism we get, and GOD shouldn't be lumped with us.. but always is. I've always been critical of Christianity and Judaism since quite young, raised in both (child of mixed marriage). But never did it dawn on me that GOD had anything to do with what the Christians and Jews kept doing poorly. For many of us, that same 'history' is true. We don't lump God with the bad behaviors, for we know there is a difference.

But if you WANT to be able to say God is bad, you lump Him with people who are provably bad. Just as, I'm sure a few Jews and Christians in Germany were bad, that's how groups are: always a few bad, at minimum. So now, to tarnish the whole and God in the bargain, well... Kristallnacht isn't far away, and thus needing 666 or Nazi Party Membership isn't far away either.
And here's the problem. People who plagiarize God's name will still be held accountable whether they are a believer / unbelieving believer / unbeliever:
KJV Exodus 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
NIV Exodus 20:7 "You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.
BGT Exodus 20:7 οὐ λήμψῃ τὸ ὄνομα κυρίου τοῦ θεοῦ σου ἐπὶ ματαίῳ οὐ γὰρ μὴ καθαρίσῃ κύριος τὸν λαμβάνοντα τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ ἐπὶ ματαίῳ
WTT Exodus 20:7 לֹ֥א תִשָּׂ֛א אֶת־שֵֽׁם־יְהוָ֥ה אֱלֹהֶ֖יךָ לַשָּׁ֑וְא כִּ֣י לֹ֤א יְנַקֶּה֙ יְהוָ֔ה אֵ֛ת אֲשֶׁר־יִשָּׂ֥א אֶת־שְׁמ֖וֹ לַשָּֽׁוְא׃ פ

And yet people don't think for a second... "hey wait, maybe this ISN'T what God's about" before they start steamrolling THEIR beliefs by using God's name to do it. Or when someone misquotes the Bible to deliberately make it look stupid, it's the same principle. Because [IF] God exists-- and you don't think He does or you think His beliefs are yours-- and they're not... then you're going to be held accountable whether you like it or not. I can just see it now "hey wait a minute, you're a make belief fantasy, how dare you hold me accountable for distorting the Bible. Why didn't you show yourself?"
And I guess God would probably respond with Romans 1:20.

So the "God lumping" is easy for people to do when they DON'T THINK they're going to be held accountable, and so they're never careful about what they say. The same phenomenon can be observed from people who post anonymously on the internet; since they feel there is no reprimand, the things said are extremely outrageous. Anonymity and accountability shouldn't be abused.

Author:  brainout [ 22 Nov 2015, 01:05 ]
Post subject:  Re: Tribulation Sequence

Yeah, hupostasis: and who among us isn't guilty of all that, at least sometimes? So what should the punishment be? Seems to me the actual punishment is to let us get what we want, and it's a blessing if we are smacked/slapped/spanked...?

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