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 Post subject: Abaddon/Apollyon
PostPosted: 16 Nov 2015, 03:01 
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Joined: 25 Aug 2015, 22:51
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I created this to discuss the topic of who and what Apollyon is (along with his locust army), and what role he will play during the Tribulation.

***Note:Just so we're clear, this is a subject in which I somewhat disagree with RBT's interpretation. I'm still listening to his Revelation series and have not reached Rev 9 yet, so I have not heard him out completely, but comparing Revelation with OT prophecies paints a slightly different picture of the Tribulation for me. As always, I try to remain open to correction by scripture.***

Quote:
2 Pet 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into Tartarus and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment;

Jude 1:6 And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,

ταρταρώσας (Tartarus)- This is where the fallen angels who took antediluvian wives are kept.

κρίσιν (judgement)- Those fallen angels are kept in Tararus until judgement.


Quote:
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.


ἐκρίθησαν (judged)- The occupants of Death and Hades will be judged at the Great White Throne.

Tartarus may be within the Abyss, but the angels in Tartarus are locked up until Judgement Day.

So, who/what is Apollyon?

He is called the Angel of the Abyss, and he does rise from the Abyss with his locust army (Rev 9:11), but they obviously weren't locked in Tartarus for Judgement Day.

Let's start with how Revelation identifies him.

Quote:
Rev 17:8"The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come.


Apollyon appears to be, "the king that was, is not, and will come." He rises from the Abyss (ἀβύσσου).

To re-enforce what I just said. See Rev 11.

Quote:
Rev 11:7 When they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the abyss will make war with them, and overcome them and kill them.


Remember that it is Apollyon who kills the Two Witnesses, yet Apollyon is also identified with the 7-headed dragon. It looks to me that Apollyon is the Anti-christ.

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 Post subject: Re: Abaddon/Apollyon
PostPosted: 16 Nov 2015, 06:40 
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So when WAS he king in the past? For the verse says, "the king that was, is not, and will come."

So the WAS would have to mean a human king or kingdom, as angels were never kings on this earth, and we don't know why or for how long Apollyon was in there. So how do you refute that?

So that's why usually folks treat 'king' to mean RRE. for 'beast' often means a kingdom, political entity, even as 'sea' usually means 'sea of people'.


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 Post subject: Re: Abaddon/Apollyon
PostPosted: 16 Nov 2015, 07:00 
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We need to identify the 7 heads. Rome is part of it, but not in the conventional sense. Yes Beast means kingdom too, for all kingdoms have a king, and the Beast that rises from the Abyss is one of the seven heads....the head that was healed.

Angel could be literal or could mean messenger...or both.

I'll elaborate maybe tomorrow. For now, we need to look in OT (beyond Daniel).

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 Post subject: Re: Abaddon/Apollyon
PostPosted: 16 Nov 2015, 07:09 
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Okay, well I'll have to get out my Rev 9 notes.


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 Post subject: Re: Name of the beast.
PostPosted: 24 Apr 2016, 02:41 
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Quote:
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six.


People are always whipping out fancy calculations in an attempt to unravel the mystery of the Beast's name. What if the answer is much simpler?

Quote:
Ezra 2:13 The number of the men of the people of Israel...the sons of Adoniqam, 666


Some man named Adoniqam listed in the book of Ezra had 666 sons, so the number of the house/name of Adoniqam is 666.

Adoniqam (אֲדֹנִיקָם) means "my lord has risen".

If it the Beast is Apollyon, and he decides to take the name Adoniqam, then anyone who takes his name as a mark would essentially be saying, that the Beast which rose from the Abyss is their risen lord.

_________________
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 Post subject: Re: Abaddon/Apollyon
PostPosted: 25 Apr 2016, 01:06 
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Well, I don't think 666 is meant to spell a name. Thieme interpreted it as unholy trinity, Fake Messiah, and that to me is enough. But if you want to run with that or some other idea, feel free. God knows we'll never fathom all of Bible fully!


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PostPosted: 15 Jan 2017, 03:09 
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I've been thinking some more about Abaddon, and the various chambers of "Hell" (Tartarus vs the Abyss). I'm currently reviewing the topic as part of the intro to the Pale Horse in RBT's Revelation lessons.

My current understanding is that both Jude 1:6 and 2Peter 2:4 are talking about the Sons of Elohim who are locked in Tartarus for spawning the Nephilim. These angels stay in Tartarus until the Judgment. Abaddon rises from the Abyss prior to Judgment (along with a hoard of nasty demons) so its not likely that the Abyss is the same as Tartarus.

My current hypothesis is that Abaddon is the same Beast out of the Abyss described in Rev 17:8, so essentially, Abaddon is the non-Jewish Anti-Christ/the revived head of the Beast. The revived head is said to have existed, ceased, and will be revived (Rev 17:11), so if I understand that correctly it means that Abaddon's kingdom would (hypothetically) have existed, disappeared, and will return.

So here is my thought. What if Abaddon ruled earth before its pre-Adamic destruction and restoration? What if the entire hierarchy of that pre-Adamic kingdom is currently in the Abyss. After all, Abaddon is called the king of the locusts, so its not that much of a stretch in my opinion.

If some or all of this is accurate, then the Beast is Abaddon, and he will be cast into the Lake of Fire with the False Prophet, while Satan is bound in the Abyss for 1000 years. That means Satan and Abaddon are definitely two separate individuals...again, depending on the accuracy of my hypothesis.

_________________
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The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


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 Post subject: Re: Abaddon/Apollyon
PostPosted: 15 Jan 2017, 06:51 
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"Abaddon is the non-Jewish Anti-Christ/the revived head of the Beast"? The head is a human, so do you mean Abbadon, not Satan, indwells the Gentile Anti-Christ?

Yeah, since Satan gets the key in Rev9 and Abaddon comes out from Abussos, seems clear they are not the same person. Maybe Satan's old adjutant or something pre-Adam.

Wish there were some OT ref to him.


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 Post subject: Re: Abaddon/Apollyon
PostPosted: 15 Jan 2017, 23:31 
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It's certainly plausible that Abaddon takes possession of a human leader, but I don't really see it in the text. Is there anything that explicitly states that the gentile anti-Christ must be human??

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The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


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 Post subject: Re: Abaddon/Apollyon
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2017, 03:43 
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Yeah, King of the North in Daniel 11:35ff is a human. Question of who indwells him, Satan or Abaddon, I guess.


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 Post subject: Re: Abaddon/Apollyon
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2017, 04:50 
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Ok, I see that now, plus Paul calls him the man of sin. It must be kind of like Ezekiel 28, where God speaks both to the prince of Tyre, and to Satan (as the king of Tyre).

Wouldn't Rev 17:8 then confirm that the gentile anti-Christ is actually possessed by Abaddon instead of Satan?

Its also interesting how Daniel 9:26 calls the gentile anti-Christ a prince instead of king (which is a title used in both Dan 11:35 and Rev 17:10).

Notice also that the temporary leader in Dan 11:20 is not called a king either (though his successor is). Nor does it say he is killed, but simply broken. Maybe the guy in Dan 11:20 becomes the King of the North because of Abaddon?

If this is the case, then the guy in Dan 11:20 is the 7th Head in Rev 17:10, and becomes the 8th Head (aka Dan 35:21) when possessed by Abaddon.

What do you think?

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HEB 4:12
The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


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 Post subject: Re: Abaddon/Apollyon
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2017, 05:05 
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Joined: 14 Sep 2015, 13:11
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brainout wrote:
Yeah, King of the North in Daniel 11:35ff is a human. Question of who indwells him, Satan or Abaddon, I guess.

I'd say abaddon would be more likely perhaps? I say that simply because I don't think satan would want to 'indwell' anyone.


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 Post subject: Re: Abaddon/Apollyon
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2017, 06:11 
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Yeah, something tells me that Satan is more interested in playing puppet master rather than doing the dirty work.

_________________
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The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


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 Post subject: Re: Abaddon/Apollyon
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2017, 14:15 
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So then why did Satan enter Judas, Luke 22:3? Not saying that to dispute, but rather to note we do have Scripture saying Satan entered someone.


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 Post subject: Re: Abaddon/Apollyon
PostPosted: 16 Jan 2017, 16:23 
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Wow, that's true, and I totally for got my own example of the prince of Tyre.

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