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PostPosted: 09 Dec 2015, 15:56 
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Erdogan's speech recorded and commented on by shoebat.com, click here.

Walid Shoebat is famous among evangelical Christians for contending that Revelation 17 is about Islam. So the article above is talking back to that theme. His latest article on that theme centers on Trump's call for banning Muslim entry, here.

Since Constantine built New Rome (now Istanbul) with seven hills, I can't wholly rule out Shoebat's interp.

What do you think?


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PostPosted: 09 Dec 2015, 16:39 
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I think "they" are just messing with us the same way they did with the initial 10 EU nations. Zeph 2, Isa 47, and Rev 17 or 18 all confirm that Mystery Babylon is revived Nineveh IMO, so the 7 Hills are the 7 historical kings/empires that ruled over Chaldea and the Levant (in reality, 5 past and 2 to come). Rome was but one of those hills.

So again IMO, one so inclined to watch should be looking for the revived consolidation of the Levant and Chaldea, not necessarily Rome.

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PostPosted: 09 Dec 2015, 17:16 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pa8sWcgrhas

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PostPosted: 09 Dec 2015, 17:31 
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Then why is there nothing in Rev about Islam, prior? Mind you, John might have metered something as an addition to Paul's Eph1:3-14, which ends with Odovacer. Rev 1 ending meter is 364, but I'm not sure whether John's carrying forward the annual timeline Paul started, or whether he's just metaphorically playing on both Paul and Daniel 9, Isaiah 53 (Paul's 434=364+70, and 490 = 364+126, and 126 = 70+56, prominent in Isaiah 53).

We need more evidence on this. The King of the West, remember. So the headquarters has to be WEST of Jerusalem. The king is of the same ethnos am who took down the 2nd Temple. So that kinda rules out Ninevah?

Bible doesn't actually use the term king of the west, but instead uses the Seleucids, like guest posted. Their headquarters was west of Jerusalem.

So how do you resolve those issues?

Granted, Islam is such a big thing we ought to find prophecy on it. So then where is it, and how can we vet what we think we find?

Anonynomenon wrote:
I think "they" are just messing with us the same way they did with the initial 10 EU nations. Zeph 2, Isa 47, and Rev 17 or 18 all confirm that Mystery Babylon is revived Nineveh IMO, so the 7 Hills are the 7 historical kings/empires that ruled over Chaldea and the Levant (in reality, 5 past and 2 to come). Rome was but one of those hills.

So again IMO, one so inclined to watch should be looking for the revived consolidation of the Levant and Chaldea, not necessarily Rome.


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PostPosted: 09 Dec 2015, 18:49 
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Well, I've never been a big believer of the Islamic Antichrist or Islamic False Prophet, but it would fit nicely. It is alleged that Allah is an adoption of Ba'al, and we see Ba'al being worshipped in Zeph 1 during the 70th Week. Personally, I would expect the Antichrist to be pushing a Judeo-Chrislamic mix that would be all inclusive for all world religions. Just look into Islamic escatology: Mahdi, Prophet Isa and the returning Dajjal. Its the mirror opposite of Biblical escatology.

A lot of the confusion IMO over the Western RRE theory is resolved when you understand that Daniel 11 is about the Antichrist, not the False Prophet. The first half of Dan 11 is about Antiochus. He is the Seleucid Beast who consolidated Chaldea and the Levant. So the last half of Daniel 11 is done to parallel Antiochus as the trend setter. Once we look at it from that perspective, the king of the West cannot be the Antichrist. The Antichrist is the king of the North.

I think Zeph 2 is pretty bold about Nineveh, compare it to Rev 18 and Isaiah 47:7.

Quote:
Zeph 2:13 And he will stretch out his hand against the north, and destroy Assyria; and will make Nineveh a desolation, and dry like a wilderness.
14 And flocks shall lie down in the midst of her, all the beasts of the nations: both the cormorant and the bittern shall lodge in the upper lintels of it; their voice shall sing in the windows; desolation shall be in the thresholds: for he shall uncover the cedar work.
15 This is the rejoicing city that dwelt carelessly, that said in her heart, I am, and there is none beside me: how is she become a desolation, a place for beasts to lie down in! every one that passeth by her shall hiss, and wag his hand.

Isaiah 47:7 And thou saidst, I shall be a lady for ever: so that thou didst not lay these things to thy heart, neither didst remember the latter end of it.
8 Therefore hear now this, thou that art given to pleasures, that dwellest carelessly, that sayest in thine heart, I am, and none else beside me; I shall not sit as a widow, neither shall I know the loss of children:
9 But these two things shall come to thee in a moment in one day, the loss of children, and widowhood: they shall come upon thee in their perfection for the multitude of thy sorceries, and for the great abundance of thine enchantments.

Rev 18:7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.
8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.


Paul and John made references to Rome, because that is what consolitated the Levant and Chaldea in their day. So Rome was a Beast Empire and might be in the future, but it doesn't have to be.

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PostPosted: 09 Dec 2015, 20:32 
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King of the North moving steadily westward, geographically for the Man of Time. So that's why conventional Christianity says 'King of the West'.

TWO Anti-christs, not one. The above is the Gentile one, and there is a Jewish one, who later is dubbed the false prophet in Rev 13ff.

So the problem is that the Zeph 2 prophecy about Assyria being destroyed, already came true. So parallel in nature to EVER DEAD Nineveh, some other entity also arrogating the same idea of ever living. But not Nineveh, geographically. The Isaiah and Rev prophecies don't say Nineveh as the location, but Rev says 'seven hills', and Daniel never says Nineveh will rise again, but rather a westward-moving set of 'beasts', ending with the same people who will take down the Temple in the future, which is the last beast, and we know her name: Rome.

But new Rome or old?

See, that's where the traditional Christian interp of Catholicism gets its impetus. New Rome, built by Constantine, then for 1000 years and even until now, extant still occupying OLD Rome, but used to occupy both.

When you get to Rev 17 you'll hear Thieme speculate that maybe it's not Catholicism, but yeah some pretend-Christian idea, so Chrislam isn't ruled out, either.


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PostPosted: 09 Dec 2015, 21:09 
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To my recollection, Zeph 2 is about the Day of the Lord, so it literally says that Nineveh is yet future. Then Isaiah 14:4-28 discusses the fate of the king of Babylon and the king of Assyria. Again, if I remember correctly, it is a future event.

Can you prove that Zeph 2 is not future, or that its being figurative?

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PostPosted: 09 Dec 2015, 21:16 
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Quote:
Isaiah 14:1When the LORD will have compassion on Jacob and again choose Israel, and settle them in their own land, then strangers will join them and attach themselves to the house of Jacob. 2The peoples will take them along and bring them to their place, and the house of Israel will possess them as an inheritance in the land of the LORD as male servants and female servants; and they will take their captors captive and will rule over their oppressors.


Isaiah 14 is about a time when God will let both Judah and Israel dwell in the land.

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PostPosted: 10 Dec 2015, 05:50 
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Okay, but Isaiah 14 isn't on Nineveh, and the Zeph 2 passage does not say ON or AT THE TIME OF the Day of the Lord, but 'before'(Zeph 2:2). Next, where are the parallel passages tying the end of Assyria to the Day of the Lord?

Rather, Isaiah 38:6, all of Chapter 39 (allusively, for Babylon would destroy Assyria), 43:14 (on using Babylon to save Israel) are on the end of Assyria. Jeremiah uses Assyria in the past tense, as now it's Babylon who oppresses Israel. That parallel continues through Jeremiah 50, which still talks about Assyria in the past tense, no claim she will revive. Same with Ezekiel 23, 27, 31.

It matters, as Zephaniah, Jeremiah, and Ezekiel were all of the same generation of prophets. Z and J were ministering to Josiah, and in the 2nd deportation a generation in time later, while J was still alive, E is ministering to those already taken away (1st and 2nd deportations), contemporaneous with Daniel. So E is talking in the past tense that Z had already promised, and J was chronicling, so by the time you get to J 50, well...

So now how to account for all of that?


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PostPosted: 10 Dec 2015, 16:57 
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Ok, I understand what you're saying, but I haven't the time at this moment to address all of your points.

However, look at Jeremiah 50.
Quote:
Jeremiah 50:4“In those days, at that time,”
declares the Lord,
“the people of Israel and the people of Judah together
will go in tears to seek the Lord their God.

Jeremiah 50:6“My people have been lost sheep;
their shepherds have led them astray
and caused them to roam on the mountains.
They wandered over mountain and hill
and forgot their own resting place.


Again, Jeremiah is talking about gathering both Israel and Judah from Babylon. Historically, Israel fell to Assyria and Judah to Babylon. Only Judah rebounded, only to fall again to Rome.

BUT the Regathering Of Judah and Israel into one solid Rod (valley of dry bones) will not happen until the Day of the Lord.

So it seems that both Babylon and Nineveh have two falls: one in the past, and a permanent fall at in the end (never to return again).

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PostPosted: 10 Dec 2015, 19:57 
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Well, when you get a chance and are in the mood, please show me where in Bible it says that either Babylon or Nineveh revive. Just because Israel and Judah are regathered at 2nd Advent, doesn't mean that Babylon and Nineveh ever revive. Nor do I find any prophecy saying so. Jerusalem is called 'Babylon', and Peter wrote from territory which used to be in the Babylonian Empire, but no one I can find says it revives. Daniel 2-12 precludes that, each Empire dying.. right?


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PostPosted: 10 Dec 2015, 21:33 
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Well Jeremiah 50 does compare the destruction of CHALDEA AND BABYLON to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. We are told that when it happens, no men we even pass through it. The only thing dwelling in it will be wild animals from generation to generation (Jer 50:35-39). At this point, there are still people living in Iraq, so that implies that Chaldea and Babylon will have to rise again to face that level of destruction. Read Nahum 2-3, it sounds like its straight out of Rev 17 and 18. So Nineveh would be the new Babylon ruling over revived Chaldea.

I'll comment some more later.

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PostPosted: 10 Dec 2015, 22:32 
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Okay, when you're in the mood, please do. For Jeremiah 50 is being said during Babylon's taking over Israel, and it's about the restoration of the Temple. Which happened 70 years later, just as Jer 25 and 29 predicted, just as Daniel prayed in the 70th year of his own captivity (since he was in the first deportation). Daniel was the guy given the timeline of Babylon's destruction, and Jeremiah and Ezekiel predicted it also. Daniel was the guy who actually LIVED THROUGH that destruction, so how is it that Jeremiah 50 isn't talking forward to Daniel, and Daniel fulfills Jeremiah?


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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2015, 04:34 
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Its not an issue of mood, it's an issue of time. I post from a mobile device from work, on my 15 minute breaks and lunch hour. I've grown accustom to short burst thinking. Please don't mistake that for apathy.

Quote:
Micah 5:2“But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
Too little to be among the clans of Judah,
From you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel.
His goings forth are from long ago,
From the days of eternity.”

3Therefore He will give them up until the time
When she who is in labor has borne a child.
Then the remainder of His brethren
Will return to the sons of Israel.

Here we see Christ born from Judah in Bethlehem.

Quote:
Micah 5:4And He will arise and shepherd His flock
In the strength of the LORD,
In the majesty of the name of the LORD His God.
And they will remain,
Because at that time He will be great
To the ends of the earth.

Christ will shepherd His flock and they will remain, in that time. Looks like a time stamp to me: Second Advent and forward.

Quote:
Micah 5:5This One will be our peace.
When the Assyrian invades our land,
When he tramples on our citadels,
Then we will raise against him
Seven shepherds and eight leaders of men.

This "One" (Christ) will be the peace of His flock when the Assyrian enters the Land. I realize that Assyria attempted to conquer Jerusalem and failed, but I think this prophecy is still pending complete fulfillment. See the next verse.
Quote:
Micah 5:6They will shepherd the land of Assyria with the sword,
The land of Nimrod at its entrances;
And He will deliver us from the Assyrian
When he attacks our land
And when he tramples our territory

Christ will deliver them from the Assyrian. Nineveh was part of Nimrod's land. If this prophecy still has a future portion to be fulfilled, then that means some of Nimrod's land must be revived for one last time. Couple that with Zeph 2, and you have revived Nineveh.


So it seems to me that Jeremiah 50 and Micah 5 and possibly Nahum 1-3 all have dual fulfillment quality: past and future.

If you disagree then please explain:

1) Why Jeremiah 50:4 states that "in those days" both Israel and Judah will believe. This is something that will only take place in mass at the return of Christ. This looks like another Time Stamp.

2) Why Jeremiah 50:35-39 says that the entire land of Chaldea will be left totally desolate and uninhabited from "generation to generation", yet today, Chaldea is full of people. Time Stamp.

3) Where is Rome specifically said to be revived? All I see is revived Chaldea throughout history.

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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2015, 05:24 
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LOL no one would ever think you apathetic. I just feel bad constantly objecting to what you say, so if you want to ignore my objections, please do.

That being said, lessseee... okay, well still the Micah prophecy doesn't work. You can't say it only references Christ at 2nd Advent. God defends. Micah's ministry was contemporaneous with Isaiah. See, that's the problem. Where in Isaiah or any of the contemporaries, is there any prediction that Babylon and/or Nineveh will rise again. They all say DOWN, but no up.

Daniel has no 'up', either.


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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2015, 05:50 
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Well, don't worry about objecting. I come here because I know you are objective so I use it to refine my thinking.

Neither Jeremiah, Micah, or Nahum would be exclusive to the past or the Day of the Lord alone. I would expect them to be doubled. For example, Antiochus Epiphanes and the 70th Week's Abomination of Desolation. Or the flood of invaders outside of Jerusalem around 70 AD vs the flood of invaders during the Tribulation.

Its like the prophecies unfold in stages or cycles (for lack of a better term).

Like I said Babylon and Chaldea never faced the level of destruction that Jeremiah 50-51 predicted. The ruins of Babylon are still intact. Its walls which should have been leveled are still there. Babylon should have been a charred heap, but it doesn't seem to be the case. I think that needs to be explained before Revived Rome can be considered as a possibility.

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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2015, 13:33 
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Okay, great. I appreciate your willingness to keep at it.

So back to Jeremiah 50: the prediction for them to be going back to Israel to rebuild the Temple. That's been the theme since Jeremiah 25. And indeed, they were IN Babylon when they did that, going through devastated land. So the entire land wasn't uninhabited. Even in Peter's day, he was there.

That they would be asking for the way to Zion cannot mean the 2nd Advent, either, for the same reason: Israel is inhabited, too. They would already know the way to Zion. God would be gathering them there.

Verses 9-10 don't say that Babylon and Chaldea will become permanently uninhabited, but will be defeated.

Jeremiah 50:1-10 NAU wrote:
Jeremiah 50:1 The word which the LORD spoke concerning Babylon, the land of the Chaldeans, through Jeremiah the prophet:
2 "Declare and proclaim among the nations. Proclaim it and lift up a standard. Do not conceal it but say, 'Babylon has been captured, Bel has been put to shame, Marduk has been shattered; Her images have been put to shame, her idols have been shattered.'
3 "For a nation has come up against her out of the north; it will make her land an object of horror, and there will be no inhabitant in it. Both man and beast have wandered off, they have gone away!
4 "In those days and at that time," declares the LORD, "the sons of Israel will come, both they and the sons of Judah as well; they will go along weeping as they go, and it will be the LORD their God they will seek.
5 "They will ask for the way to Zion, turning their faces in its direction; they will come that they may join themselves to the LORD in an everlasting covenant that will not be forgotten.
6 "My people have become lost sheep; Their shepherds have led them astray. They have made them turn aside on the mountains; They have gone along from mountain to hill And have forgotten their resting place.
7 "All who came upon them have devoured them; And their adversaries have said, 'We are not guilty, Inasmuch as they have sinned against the LORD who is the habitation of righteousness, Even the LORD, the hope of their fathers.'
8 "Wander away from the midst of Babylon And go forth from the land of the Chaldeans; Be also like male goats at the head of the flock.
9 "For behold, I am going to arouse and bring up against Babylon A horde of great nations from the land of the north, And they will draw up their battle lines against her; From there she will be taken captive. Their arrows will be like an expert warrior Who does not return empty-handed.
10 "Chaldea will become plunder; All who plunder her will have enough," declares the LORD.


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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2015, 17:05 
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I agree with your assessment, but still, I think you are overlooking this:

Quote:
Jeremiah 50:35“A sword against the Chaldeans,” declares the LORD,
“And against the inhabitants of Babylon
And against her officials and her wise men!

36“A sword against the oracle priests, and they will become fools!
A sword against her mighty men, and they will be shattered!

37“A sword against their horses and against their chariots
And against all the foreigners who are in the midst of her,
And they will become women!
A sword against her treasures, and they will be plundered!

38“A drought on her waters, and they will be dried up!
For it is a land of idols,
And they are mad over fearsome idols.

39“Therefore the desert creatures will live there along with the jackals;
The ostriches also will live in it,
And it will never again be inhabited
Or dwelt in from generation to generation
.


From GENERATION TO GENERATION.

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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2015, 18:06 
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Yes, and that came true already. Don't you remember, for centuries no one even believed Babylon existed because there was no evidence.

Verse 39 tells you it will not rise again. Iraq is not Babylon.


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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2015, 01:45 
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brainout wrote:
Yes, and that came true already. Don't you remember, for centuries no one even believed Babylon existed because there was no evidence.

Verse 39 tells you it will not rise again. Iraq is not Babylon.


You're right. Sorry for bing so stubborn, but you are right. I had to dig around in Babylonian history to see it, and now I realized that Nineveh cannot rise again either, so that leaves us with Revived Rome.

I do think Revive Byzantium makes more sense than Western Rome, I mean even Catholicism has its roots in Byzantium.

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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2015, 01:57 
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Well, you're still maybe targeting the right place and idea, but with the wrong label? Just thinking out loud, here. Not trying to shoot you down, but like you're doing, to fine-tune the meaning.

I'm not sure what is the right meaning, but 'seven hills' means a play on Rome. But after that, well I don't know.


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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2015, 02:32 
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Yeah, seven heads are seven hills, which might suggest Rome, but remember that the seven heads are also seven king/kingdoms.

My guess is those heads all ruled (or will rule) Chaldea at some point:

1)Babel
2)Assyria
3)Babylon
4)Medo-Persia
5)Seleucus
6)Rome ("one is" in John's day)
7)Short Interim (coming for a short space)
8)Revived Byzantine Rome (the 8th is of the 7th)

Quote:
Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2015, 05:08 
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I was just listening to RBT lesson 467-0067 on Rev 2:6. He was talking about Rome's origins in Asia Minor and how it eventually became the pivot site for the 7 Churches. Maybe the 7 Churches have a relationship to the 7 Hills.

Also, I originally thought that Gog of Magog was another title for the Antichrist (comparing him to Gyges the conqueror). I don't know what Thieme taught, but I think the land of Magog is present day Turkey and not Russia. If any of that can be proven true, that might be a smoking gun on what Revived Rome might look like.

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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2015, 05:32 
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Yeah, if I recall both Arabs and Russia. Arabs are King of the South. But it depends on who's in control during that time.

You might be onto something with the 7-8 listing. I'd say Alexander instead of Seleucids, but it's close enough. Selecus was a general, part of the Diadochi, as was Ptolemy.


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PostPosted: 12 Dec 2015, 06:00 
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There's a big debate over whether Meshech, Tubal, Rosh, etc are part of Russia or Turkey. I think Turkey based on what I've read, but I'm not a historian.

The list I made with the 8 kingdoms, I based off of Antichrist like figures mentioned throughout the Bible where similar diction to Revelation 17&18 exists. So my updated list is this:

1)Babel: Nimrod (Micah 5 Land of Nimrod)
2)Assyria: Sennacherib (Micah 5:5, Nahum 1, Zeph 2)
3)Babylon: Nebuchadnezzar (Jer 50, Isa 47)
4)Medo-Persia: Ahasuerus (Esther; had he listened to Haman he would have been a Beast)
5)Seleucus: Antiochus Epiphanes (Daniel 11)
6)Rome: Domitian
7)Interim: ?
8)Revived Byzantium:

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PostPosted: 14 Dec 2015, 14:43 
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Possible deployment of your last post: http://www.breitbart.com/national-secur ... rld-video/

Note the two Romes.

Also here, note the factions in the fight: http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-bu ... aphy-14608


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PostPosted: 14 Dec 2015, 16:31 
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Well, since America is close to the Fifth Cycle, then it is very likely that the Caliphate will be raised up as the most evil nation to execute the Fifth Cycle. If (maybe/maybe not) America is the last client nation of Church, then the Caliphate under its Caliphe could be the 7th Head (for a short while) until the tranistion to Revived Rome is completed for the 8th Head (with the healed wound).

It seems that Rome began in Asia minor, it became the first Client Nation in Asia Minor, and may well be the final Beast in Asia Minor. That would be very poetic.

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PostPosted: 16 Dec 2015, 02:59 
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Shoebat might be onto something concerning Mecca. Compare the following passages from Isaiah 34, Jeremiah 49, and Revelation 18. Both Isaiah and Jeremiah concern Edom, from Dedan to Teman, and Bozrah. Thats pretty much most of Saudi Arabia.

Quote:
Revelation 18:
2And he cried out with a mighty voice, saying, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great! She has become a dwelling place of demons and a prison of every unclean spirit, and a prison of every unclean and hateful bird.
Isaiah 34:
11But pelican and hedgehog will possess it,
And owl and raven will dwell in it;
And He will stretch over it the line of desolation
And the plumb line of emptiness.


Quote:
Revelation 18:
17And every shipmaster and every passenger and sailor, and as many as make their living by the sea, stood at a distance, 18and were crying out as they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, ‘What city is like the great city?’

Jeremiah 49:
21The earth has quaked at the noise of their downfall. There is an outcry! The noise of it has been heard at the Red Sea.


Quote:
Revelation 18:
18and were crying out as they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, ‘What city is like the great city?’

Isaiah 34:
9Its streams will be turned to pitch,
And its loose earth into brimstone,
And its land will become burning pitch.


Mecca sits on 7 hills in the desert and on the coast. Its a port city and trades in gold, spices, clothing, jewellery, and slaves. Saudi Arabia sits on oil, and Isaiah describes the grown becoming burning tar.

I think Shoebat might be right. It certainly fits well.

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PostPosted: 16 Dec 2015, 04:04 
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Can't see Makka from the sea; there was no Makka until after 400 AD or so. The people who took down the 2nd Temple were not Arabs. So Daniel 9:27 says the SAME people, so can't be the Arabs. Daniel 10ff defines the Arabs as King of the South and focuses on Egypt, not Saudi; not, seven hills there. ROME is the focus.

Now, if you want to talk about WHO CONTROLS Rome, maybe: but it can't be the Arabs, as they already are identified with the King of the South.


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 Post subject: Re: Mecca
PostPosted: 16 Dec 2015, 04:24 
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Well, Mystery Babylon doesn't necessarily have to be a part of Rome. So there can be Rome to the North and Mecca to the South. That would explain the constant back and forth between the north and south in Daniel 11.

And I really don't think the 7 hills are literal, it seems that they are used to represent the 7 kings of the Beast nations, so they're historical peaks of power.

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PostPosted: 16 Dec 2015, 05:21 
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Okay, well let's just agree to disagree. I'll wait until after you get through Rev 17 classes.


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PostPosted: 16 Dec 2015, 05:59 
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Well Rev 17 is a long ways away, but I understand. I only question the Roman theory because I expect the answer to be somewhere in the OT. No mention of 7 hills in OT that I know of; and the only other similarity to Rev 17-18 are Isa 47, Zeph 2, and the Edom prophecies referenced above.

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PostPosted: 16 Dec 2015, 11:03 
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Well, the seven hills is the Romans' own nickname for Rome. Remember that the OT's last book was Malachi, which came out in 397 BC or so, long before there WAS a Rome. So it wouldn't have yet been known by that name, and wouldn't have necessarily become known by that name. Just as, Gehenna was a trash dump outside Jerusalem Christ often used as a synonym for hell; but you don't find it in the OT either.


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PostPosted: 16 Dec 2015, 18:45 
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Ok. If you're still open to the conversation, I've ruled out Mecca. Now I'm trying to see how Istanbul could fit if Asia Minor where to be Revive as Rome. As Thieme mentioned, Lydia seems to be the origins of what would eventually become Rome, but I can't really find much on that part of history. That same area was once ruled by Gyges, who the Assyrians knew as Gugu.

So if Mystery Babylon were Istanbul (situated on the Golden Horn), then it would literally ride Asia Minor. I think its a possibility, since the Seven Churches were all in Asia Minor too.

The question is, does the land of Magog has any connection to Gyges.

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PostPosted: 16 Dec 2015, 18:47 
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Ok. If you're still open to the conversation, I've ruled out Mecca. Now I'm trying to see how Istanbul could fit if Asia Minor were to be Revive as Rome.

As Thieme mentioned, Lydia seems to be the origins of what would eventually become Rome, but I can't really find much on that part of history. That same area was once ruled by Gyges, who the Assyrians knew as Gugu.

So if Mystery Babylon were Istanbul (situated on the Golden Horn), then it would literally ride Asia Minor. I think its a possibility, since the Seven Churches were all in Asia Minor too.

The question is, does the land of Magog have any connection to Gyges?

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PostPosted: 16 Dec 2015, 20:09 
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Yeah, well that's where your 8 has a kind of fit, as Istanbul=Constantinople=New Rome (the name Constantine gave it), because the seven hills were LITERALLY RECREATED there.

I don't remember where I put the Cambridge History volume on that fact, somewhere in my Ephesians1REPARSED. When I find it, will edit this comment with the source link.

Again, all my posts aren't meant to shut down anything you're saying. If anything, I make remarks to keep the convo going. :bouncemirror:


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PostPosted: 16 Dec 2015, 20:21 
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Don't worry, I encourage you to challenge whatever you feel should be challenged. I looked closer at Isaiah 34 and realized that there simply isn't any way for Mecca to fulfill Mystery Babylon.

At this point, I'm trying to determine if Gyges of Lydia can be linked to Magog. Seems like scholars are divided on the issue.

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PostPosted: 16 Dec 2015, 21:31 
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Found the Cambridge link, here: https://books.google.com/books?id=MNSyT ... ls&f=false

I made a new post since you answered my other one. The cheapest version of that volume is over $100 in Amazon or Ebay. :mrgreen:

Here's another confirmation also from Cambridge, but in its history of Judaism, https://books.google.com/books?id=BjtWL ... 39&f=false

Sadly both editions no longer allow the extensive previews they used to allow. You used to be able to read whole chapters, five years ago when I first found those links.


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PostPosted: 17 Dec 2015, 21:32 
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Now Turkey is trying to get closer to Israel.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-and ... l-of-ties/

Give what Erdogan said in his speech in the beginning of this thread, I would say Israel would be foolish to even consider getting close with Turkey.

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PostPosted: 17 Dec 2015, 21:54 
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I've also been thinking about the Iron Legs (Western and Eastern Rome), and the Feet wixed with Iron and Clay. Feet have 10 toes, so maybe those are the 10 horns. I would expect the identity of those horns to be found in OT somewhere (we know three of them will be uprooted).

So, if Eastern Rome is revived, then it would be mixed with strong and weak nations that will not cleave. The Arab nations would fit that deacription. They're very factionalized, and oppressed by dictatorships. So I guess homeland Rome would be the Iron and the annexed Arabs would be the clay.

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PostPosted: 18 Dec 2015, 02:07 
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Arabs are King of the South. So that leaves other Western nations.


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PostPosted: 21 Dec 2015, 20:59 
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brainout wrote:
Arabs are King of the South. So that leaves other Western nations.


K.

There are two legs of Rome, and therefore one foot for each leg. What if both Western and Eastern Rome are revived together? So like you said, the 10 Horns would consist of parts of Europe and Turkey.

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PostPosted: 22 Dec 2015, 17:46 
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Well, two feet, so yeah that could be.


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 Post subject: Re: Reviving Rome
PostPosted: 21 Mar 2016, 02:09 
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It looks like the EU's poor decision making on the immigrant crisis has backed it into a corner. EU wants Turkey to take some of the immigrants, but in return, Turkey wants to try joining the EU. Turkey has been trying this for years, but now the EU has put itself into a bad position.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu- ... m-35797679

Its groundhog's day again.

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PostPosted: 22 Mar 2016, 05:08 
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Yeppers. So now Turkey's citizens need to decide whether they really want the anti-Israel Erdogan, or not.


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PostPosted: 23 Mar 2016, 04:35 
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So far this EU-Turkey deal is following the same pattern as the Iranian Nuclear deal.
Jan 19th--Announcing a 'frame-work' meeting.
March 4/5 (account for leap day)-- framework meeting is held.
April 3-- Deal is signed. It would be interesting if Turkey gets closer to joining the EU by this date.

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PostPosted: 16 Apr 2016, 21:09 
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Rome?! Are you serious! "The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth" (Rev.17:9, KJV). Have you concidered how WIDE her bottom would have to be!

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PostPosted: 17 Apr 2016, 01:05 
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:jawdrop:

Or something else...


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PostPosted: 26 Apr 2016, 06:11 
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Right Scoop just did an analysis of Bible prophecy using Walid Shoebat's model of Erdogan, here.

My reply is pasted here, in case Right Scoop deletes it,

brainout in RightScoop wrote:
Sorry, you're flat wrong on the Roman Empire not being referenced. The 'prince' who took down the Temple, Daniel 9:26, is the SAME as the one who will be in Rev 13. Furthermore, it's the main prophecy of the NT, which I've been documenting IN THE GREEK for 8 years. POLITICAL CHRISTIANITY is the harlot, and that's what Rev17 means by 'mystery' (Paul's keyword for Church).

GREEK METERS A TIMELINE as did the Hebrew, which again I've been documenting for 8 years, when I first found it in Isaiah 53. Done hundreds of videos showing live in Scripture how the meter works, https://vimeo.com/brainout/channels . Right now, we're metering Matthew 24-25 (which is one chapter of an annual prophetic timeline excoriating CHURCH for politicizing), latest results here: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=512&p=2321#p2304

If you look at the links there, the trail of prophetically condemning Political Church begins at Matt 24:5 (add 30 to the syllable counts to convert to AD), which of course is when Irenaeus and Tertullian were telling their lies.

Paul extensively also documented the upcoming apostasy syllable by year, with astonishing satire, MATCHING HIS TEXT TO MATT24, which we've just found. The Pauline writeup and videos (with downloadable pdf/docs/htm so you can vet the material in Bible and history yourself) is covered in https://vimeo.com/channels/paulmeterggs11 . Dare you to disprove it.

Now, none of that disproves the POTENTIAL of a Turkiye Erdogan or other guy trying to do its thing. Shoebat isn't paying enough attention to the Greek, though. He doesn't know the meter, as indeed none of the scholars do, since they still think 'meter' can only mean poetry. Never mind, folks remembered Scripture by SYLLABLE COUNTS, which clearly Paul and Luke MAP to sync with Matt24-25. So Shoebat's and your analysis suffer because you don't know these things.

So then how could both be true? Easy: 'ChrisLam'. Roman model in that Rome was all about the unity of church and state, and so too of course ISlam, and so too the Bible warning against political Christianity, of which Ted Cruz and Donald Trump are the #GOP poster boys (backed by Dominionists, aka 'evangelicals', who want Caesar, not God). LOL the sect to which Ted Cruz belongs, is called SEVEN MOUNTAINS, could God make the warning more obvious? https://www.google.com/#q=Seven+Mountai ... nald+Trump . Or see them talk themselves in Youtube, https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... nald+Trump
and https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... s+Ted+Cruz

I know you're for Cruz, and I would be also, were he not Dominionist.

All to destroy Israel, of course. Which is, Erdogan's biggest wish. Dominionism is anti-Israel, look it up along with Replacement Theology and Reconstructionism. Constantine started that. And Constantine is burlesqued by the Lord directly in Matt 24:8-9 (by the end, 354 AD, Constantine's surviving sons were killing each others kingdoms over whether God was One or Three). Paul is even more pointed about it, starting here: https://vimeo.com/channels/paulmeterggs11/78567584 .

So to instead just focus on Islam when Bible instead blames Church, is to misrepresent Bible prophecy.


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PostPosted: 26 Apr 2016, 19:59 
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Lol. Wow, I went to Rightscoop to read the conversation you had. Those people really didn't like you crashing their party. Especially with the Cruz comments. Its amazing how antagonistic other believers are to outside perspectives.

You would think people would want to know about something as intricate as the Meter. Apparently it out of their comfort zone.

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Last edited by Anonynomenon on 26 Apr 2016, 22:19, edited 1 time in total.

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