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PostPosted: 17 Sep 2015, 12:06 
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Joined: 14 Sep 2015, 13:11
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It's surprisingly difficult to find a comprehensive [discreet] outline of JW doctrines, so I thought I'd just take from what they say from their own (public) main website and put a bit of commentary to see how they interpret verses and how it lines up with what the *BIBLE* says. And then at the end create a final compilation of what they said.
All official quotations taken directly from their website here: http://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/

Quote:
Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Believe That They Have the One True Religion? Those who are serious about religion should think that the one they’ve chosen is acceptable to God and Jesus. Otherwise, why would they be involved in it? Jesus Christ didn’t agree with the view that there are many religions, many roads, all leading to salvation. Rather, he said: “"Narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it."” (Matthew 7:14) Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that they’ve found that road. Otherwise, they’d look for another religion.

Okay, well for starters the truth (re: Bible) is not going to be a religion, and they outright state that they are a religion. Per James 1:27, being in any religion means you'll try to play Christ by being "unspotted", which is impossible with your own accord.

With that out of the way we get into some very fundamental statements, notice how the immediately switch Matthew 7:14 into referring to a religious denomination? They snuck in "religion" with many roads when this context does not exist in the original language text. Religion is not mentioned anywhere in this verse:
Quote:
Matthew 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the road which leads to life, and few there be that find it.
Matthew 7:14 τί στενὴ ἡ πύλη καὶ τεθλιμμένη ἡ ὁδὸς ἡ ἀπάγουσα εἰς τὴν ζωὴν καὶ ὀλίγοι εἰσὶν οἱ εὑρίσκοντες αὐτήν.


And we KNOW that Matthew 7 isn't referring to a specific denomination.

Quote:
Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Matthew 7:15 Προσέχετε ἀπὸ τῶν ψευδοπροφητῶν, οἵτινες ἔρχονται πρὸς ὑμᾶς ἐν ἐνδύμασιν προβάτων, ἔσωθεν δέ εἰσιν λύκοι ἅρπαγες.
Matthew 7:16 You will know them by their fruit. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Matthew 7:16 ἀπὸ τῶν καρπῶν αὐτῶν ἐπιγνώσεσθε αὐτούς. μήτι συλλέγουσιν ἀπὸ ἀκανθῶν σταφυλὰς ἢ ἀπὸ τριβόλων σῦκα
...
Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 7:21 Οὐ πᾶς ὁ λέγων μοι· κύριε κύριε, εἰσελεύσεται εἰς τὴν βασιλείαν τῶν οὐρανῶν, ἀλλ᾽ ὁ ποιῶν τὸ θέλημα τοῦ πατρός μου τοῦ ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς.
Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works?
Matthew 7:22 πολλοὶ ἐροῦσίν μοι ἐν ἐκείνῃ τῇ ἡμέρᾳ· κύριε κύριε, οὐ τῷ σῷ ὀνόματι ἐπροφητεύσαμεν, καὶ τῷ σῷ ὀνόματι δαιμόνια ἐξεβάλομεν, καὶ τῷ σῷ ὀνόματι δυνάμεις πολλὰς ἐποιήσαμεν


I've cut out some of the verses to keep it condensed (please feel free to read all of the passages in your own Bible). The reason why the 'narrow road' was being brought up is because a lot of Christians are going to be stuck believing in what a teacher or group of teachers say, and thus ultimately turning them away from BELIEVING in Christ with nothing else added.

Quote:
John 6:40 And this is the will of Him that sent me, that every one which sees the Son, and believes on him, will have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
John 6:40 τοῦτο γάρ ἐστιν τὸ θέλημα τοῦ πατρός μου, ἵνα πᾶς ὁ θεωρῶν τὸν υἱὸν καὶ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον, καὶ ἀναστήσω αὐτὸν ἐγὼ [ἐν] τῇ ἐσχάτῃ ἡμέρᾳ.


#1 they've added external context not present to the original language text
#2 they cherry picked verse 14 when the whole context instead refers to the problem of being stuck in false doctrines (re: false prophets and bad fruit, bad fruit = invalid Bible Doctrines).
#3 Christ does not mention ANY denomination in ANY verses. Therefore the only truth ever was non-denominational. This is the biggest issue for any denomination, including baptists; of which many problems such as works salvation and KJV-onlyism stem.
#4 they pop in the statement "leading to salvation" implying that something OTHER THAN belief 'leads' to salvation!

Quote:
Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Feel That They Are the Only People Who Will Be Saved? No. Many millions who lived in centuries past and who weren’t Jehovah’s Witnesses will have an opportunity for salvation. The Bible explains that in God’s promised new world, “"there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous."” (Acts 24:15) Additionally, many now living may yet begin to serve God, and they too will gain salvation. In any case, it’s not our job to judge who will or won’t be saved. That assignment rests squarely in Jesus’ hands.—John 5:22, 27.


Whether JWs claim only their denomination can save or not isn't the issue since they incorrectly state salvation to begin with. The wording is slightly unusual however, they focus on those who were "saved" PRIOR to the founding of the Jehovah's Witness, and they don't discreetly say "those who WON'T be JWs will be saved". And when they refer to future tense, they say you have an OPPORTUNITY to be saved. They don't outright state you can be in a different denomination and be saved, but that doesn't matter because... they've failed Bible 101. Salvation = one second of belief that Christ paid for your sins. Instead they have to say that you must begin to SERVE God which isn't salvation. What if I "serve God" and don't believe in God? That is a possible variable and one of many problems / contradictions associated with this mindset.

Quote:
Are Jehovah’s Witnesses Christians? Yes. We are Christians for the following reasons:
We try to follow closely the teachings and behavior of Jesus Christ.—1 Peter 2:21.
We believe that Jesus is the key to salvation, that “"there is not another name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved."”—Acts 4:12.
When people become Jehovah’s Witnesses, they are baptized in the name of Jesus.—Matthew 28:18, 19.
We offer our prayers in Jesus’ name.—John 15:16.
We believe that Jesus is the Head, or the one appointed to have authority, over every man.—1 Corinthians 11:3.
However, in a number of ways, we are different from other religious groups that are called Christian. For example, we believe that the Bible teaches that Jesus is the Son of God, not part of a Trinity. (Mark 12:29) We do not believe that the soul is immortal, that there is any basis in Scripture for saying that God tortures people in an everlasting hell, or that those who take the lead in religious activities should have titles that elevate them above others.—Ecclesiastes 9:5; Ezekiel 18:4; Matthew 23:8-10.

The problem is that they say they believe Jesus is the KEY to salvation instead of that Jesus *IS* salvation. This coupled with all of the "other keys" they've added, such as joining [a] denomination, "serving God", potentially water baptism, and whatever else. And most importantly they just refer to Jesus as a "key" RATHER THAN SAYING: *BELIEVE* that Christ paid for your sins. Of course if you believe in works salvation, then I guess Jesus pretty much is a key on a very confusing key-chain.

With that said, *are* JWs Christians? I think so in the sense they are role-playing Christian, because the people in the very chapter the JW's were cherry picking from thought so:
Quote:
Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works?
Matthew 7:22 πολλοὶ ἐροῦσίν μοι ἐν ἐκείνῃ τῇ ἡμέρᾳ· κύριε κύριε, οὐ τῷ σῷ ὀνόματι ἐπροφητεύσαμεν, καὶ τῷ σῷ ὀνόματι δαιμόνια ἐξεβάλομεν, καὶ τῷ σῷ ὀνόματι δυνάμεις πολλὰς ἐποιήσαμεν


So as a double-edged sword, since you have to role-play "Christian" to the point you think you are in order to get to Matthew 7:22. i.e. christians who focused their life doing rituals / works / abandoning things in the life... wasting their own time, God's time and never maturing their thinking. It would be pretty horrible to waste your whole life and then be smacked with Matthew 7:23, and be so focused on what you did had no merit, so you STILL don't do John 6:40 DESPITE seeing God. Incredible. And that's why the narrow path is narrow, because people just can't fathom John 6:40 is the only thing for salvation. Coincidentally human comprehension has issues with both 'free' salvation and the trinity, both of which the Jehovah's Witnesses have flunked so far.

Quote:
Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Believe in Jesus? Yes. We believe in Jesus, who said: “"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."” (John 14:6) We have faith that Jesus came to earth from heaven and gave his perfect human life as a ransom sacrifice. (Matthew 20:28) His death and resurrection make it possible for those exercising faith in him to gain everlasting life. (John 3:16) We also believe that Jesus is now ruling as King of God’s heavenly Kingdom, which will soon bring peace to the entire earth. (Revelation 11:15) However, we take Jesus at his word when he said: “"The Father is greater than I am."” (John 14:28) So we do not worship Jesus, as we do not believe that he is Almighty God.

Oh man! This made me sick. But it's interesting for one reason: unlike the biblical unitarians, they realize the error that all worship is relegated to God, so they DON'T worship Christ as a result because that would be contradictory. So that means we have two unitarians creating different 'rifts' of contradictions in the Bible (because there are verses where people worship Christ, but they probably have some long-winded bizarre answer like biblical unitarians): and SOMEHOW both groups claim that what they're doing doesn't cause contradictions. Of course worshiping Christ is by thinking Bible Doctrine, but since they failed so much they're ironically not worshiping Christ and fulfilling exactly what they say. Go figure.

Now let's address John 14:28 since they're so adamant:
Quote:
John 14:28 You have heard how I said to you, I go away, and come again unto you. If you loved me, you would rejoice, because I said, I go to the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
John 14:28 Ἠκούσατε ὅτι ἐγὼ εἶπον ὑμῖν, Ὑπάγω καὶ ἔρχομαι πρὸς ὑμᾶς. Εἰ ἠγαπᾶτέ με, ἐχάρητε ἂν ὅτι εἶπον, Πορεύομαι πρὸς τὸν πατέρα· ὅτι ὁ πατήρ μου μείζων μού ἐστιν.


Okay before we address the JW's burning question, let's back up for some more context. Philip was initially making a similar claim as the Jehovah's Witnesses in regards to the trinity... SHOW US THE FATHER! Well Christ says if you see him you *see the Father*:
Quote:
John 14:8 Philip says to him, Lord, show us the Father, and it suffices us. 9 Jesus says to him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet have you not known me, Philip? he that has seen me has seen the Father; and how do you say then, Show us the Father? 10 Believest you not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwells in me, he does the works. 11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
John 14:8 Λέγει αὐτῷ Φίλιππος· κύριε, δεῖξον ἡμῖν τὸν πατέρα, καὶ ἀρκεῖ ἡμῖν. 9 λέγει αὐτῷ ὁ Ἰησοῦς· τοσούτῳ χρόνῳ μεθ᾽ ὑμῶν εἰμι καὶ οὐκ ἔγνωκάς με, Φίλιππε; ὁ ἑωρακὼς ἐμὲ ἑώρακεν τὸν πατέρα· πῶς σὺ λέγεις· δεῖξον ἡμῖν τὸν πατέρα; 10 οὐ πιστεύεις ὅτι ἐγὼ ἐν τῷ πατρὶ καὶ ὁ πατὴρ ἐν ἐμοί ἐστιν; τὰ ῥήματα ἃ ἐγὼ λέγω ὑμῖν ἀπ᾽ ἐμαυτοῦ οὐ λαλῶ, ὁ δὲ πατὴρ ἐν ἐμοὶ μένων ποιεῖ τὰ ἔργα αὐτοῦ. 11 πιστεύετέ μοι ὅτι ἐγὼ ἐν τῷ πατρὶ καὶ ὁ πατὴρ ἐν ἐμοί· εἰ δὲ μή, διὰ τὰ ἔργα αὐτὰ πιστεύετε.


The reason for the 'possibility' of Christ being lower than the Father, is that the Godhead has to operate at different levels like that. Godhead is still co-equal despite that.

Quote:
Why don’t Jehovah’s Witnesses celebrate Christmas?
Jesus commanded that we commemorate his death, not his birth.—Luke 22:19, 20.
Jesus’ apostles and early disciples did not celebrate Christmas. The New Catholic Encyclopedia says that “"the Nativity feast was instituted no earlier than 243 [C.E.],"” more than a century after the last of the apostles died.
There is no proof that Jesus was born on December 25; his birth date is not recorded in the Bible.
We believe that Christmas is not approved by God because it is rooted in pagan customs and rites.—2 Corinthians 6:17.

#1 Luke 22:19-20 does not say commemorate Christ's death. And it doesn't say to not commemorate either, so that's a really poor 'proof'.
#2 Jesus' apostles also didn't have electricity, so it doesn't matter if they didn't celebrate it, it's a *holiday*. And the Bible supports holidays (re: 'rest')
#3 It should actually be looked at the reverse, since Satan knows what the Bible says, pagan cultures distort Biblical principles and mirror some, either for 'just enough effect', or to reverse it.


Quote:
Why make Christmas an issue?
Many still celebrate Christmas despite knowing about its pagan roots and lack of support from the Bible. Such persons could ask: Why should Christians take such an unpopular stance? Why make it an issue?
The Bible encourages us to think for ourselves, to use our “"power of reason."” (Romans 12:1, 2) It teaches us to value the truth. (John 4:23, 24) So while we are interested in how others view us, we adhere to Bible principles even if it means that we become unpopular.
Although we choose not to celebrate Christmas ourselves, we respect each person’s right to decide for himself in this matter. We do not interfere in the Christmas celebrations of others.

The Bible does NOT say to become legalistic by mandating people to forcefully do or not do something. So they've just disproved their own belief system, and created a bad contradiction. Of course if you believe that you're in the "true" denomination, you'll ignore these contradictions and 'pretend' they make sense.


Quote:
Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Believe in Creationism?
No. Jehovah’s Witnesses do believe that God created everything. But we do not agree with creationism. Why not? Because a number of creationist ideas actually conflict with the Bible. Consider the following two examples:
Length of the six days of creation. Some creationists assert that the six days of creation were literal 24-hour days. But the word “day” in the Bible can refer to a considerable length of time.—Genesis 2:4; Psalm 90:4.
Age of the earth. Some creationists teach that the earth is just a few thousand years old. However, according to the Bible, the earth and the universe existed before the six days of creation. (Genesis 1:1) For that reason, Jehovah’s Witnesses have no objection to credible scientific research that indicates the earth may be billions of years old.
Although Jehovah’s Witnesses believe in creation, we are not antiscience. We believe that true science and the Bible are compatible.

Oh boy...
#1 the Bible does NOT say there's a six day creation. Everything was created in Genesis 1:1.
#2 after the Angelic Conflict (TOHU WAH BOHU), God then restored planet earth in the literal 6 days.
#3 they are correct in that the earth could be a billion or trillion years old. The age of planet earth is not given; it would have to be old enough for the pre-restoration biology to turn into diamonds and oil after Satan trashed it and it went into darkness.

Quote:
Have Jehovah’s Witnesses Changed the Bible to Fit Their Beliefs? No, we haven’t. On the contrary, when we have discovered that our beliefs were not completely in line with the Bible, we have changed our beliefs.

They don't change verses, but they do add extraneous context which isn't found as we saw for Matthew 7:14. They also are more translation-oriented as opposed to original language text: but that's pretty much every denomination that started in the U.S.

Quote:
Is the New World Translation Accurate?

This will actually be good for a separate thread for so we can analyze it publicly and see. Every translation is flawed, so there's no point of making that big of an issue of it. If they are to claim their NWT is 'superior' they'll be repeating a similar argument of the KJV-onlyist movement.

Quote:
Why Don’t Jehovah’s Witnesses Celebrate Birthdays?[/b] Jehovah’s Witnesses do not celebrate birthdays because we believe that such celebrations displease God. Although the Bible does not explicitly forbid celebrating birthdays, it does help us to reason on key features of these events and understand God’s view of them.

They basically just refuted themselves again. I'm starting to notice a pattern of severely controversial denominations that create so much contradiction and chaos, that they can't even see how bad it is (from an outside viewpoint).

I'll leave it at that for now to keep this from getting too long.
Broken Doctrines adhered to:
*works salvation
*legalism (forceful mandates (don't do christmas / blood transfusions)
*compromise (denominational bias)
*unitarian (denying the trinity)
*reject the deity of Jesus Christ (denying the GOD-MAN)
*do not worship Christ
*reject a permanent soul
*deny hell & the everlasting fire
*(potentially) baptismal regeneration, they put too much emphasis on water baptism for it to be healthy
*rejection of the angelic conflict
*rejection of the 6 day RESTORATION
*rejection of the creation of the universe in eternity past by God


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PostPosted: 17 Sep 2015, 13:31 
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EDIT: for others reading and not familiar with Bibleworks, the 'q' is their theta, and the punctuation are diacritics. Else you should be able to figure out the transliteration, at least until I know how to post the Bibleworks 9 fonts in Greek here within the forum. Seems like hupostasis knows how, and he told me, but I don't understand his answer (my brain is out, lol).

Re John 6:40, this time pasted from BW9, Thayer on thewrwn -- versus the expected blepw -- sorry I can't get it to paste in the Greek font, must be a particular export setting needed but I don't know what it is. I added the bolding:

1. to be a spectator, look at, behold, German schauen (the qewroi were men who attended the games or the sacrifices as public deputies; cf. Grimm on 2 Macc. 4:19); absolutely: Matt. 27:55; Mark 15:40; Luke 23:35; followed by indirect discourse, Mark 12:41; 15:47; used especially of persons and things looked upon as in some respect noteworthy: tina, John 6:40; 16:10,16ff,19; Acts 3:16; 25:24; Rev. 11:11f; o` qewrw/n to,n ui`o,n qewrei/ to,n pate,ra, the majesty of the Father resplendent in the Son, John 12:45; tina with participle (Buttmann, 301 (258): Mark 5:15); Luke 10:18; John 6:19; (10:12); 20:12,14; (1 John 3:17); ti,, Luke 14:29; 21:6; 23:48; Acts 4:13; ta, shmei/a, John 2:23; 6:2 L Tr WH; Acts 8:13, (qaumasta, te,rata, Sap. 19:8); ta, e;rga tou/ Cristou/, John 7:3; ti, with participle, John 20:6; Acts 7:56; 10:11; followed by o[ti, Acts 19:26; to view attentively, take a view of, survey: ti,, Matt. 28:1; to view mentally, consider: followed by orat. obliq., Heb. 7:4.


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PostPosted: 31 Oct 2015, 23:21 
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Joined: 14 Sep 2015, 13:11
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I've also understood the "no birthdays" thing a bit more now-- since God times using your birthday as one faculty, if you disregard it, you're essentially disregarding God's timing in your life. So you'll never be able to 'see' what's happening.

Quote:
KJV Ecclesiastes 3:1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
NIV Ecclesiastes 3:1 There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under the heavens:
BGT Ecclesiastes 3:1 τοῖς πᾶσιν χρόνος καὶ καιρὸς τῷ παντὶ πράγματι ὑπὸ τὸν οὐρανόν
WTT Ecclesiastes 3:1 לַכֹּ֖ל זְמָ֑ן וְעֵ֥ת לְכָל־חֵ֖פֶץ תַּ֥חַת הַשָּׁמָֽיִם׃ ס

KJV Ecclesiastes 3:2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
NIV Ecclesiastes 3:2 a time to be born and a time to die, a time to plant and a time to uproot,
BGT Ecclesiastes 3:2 καιρὸς τοῦ τεκεῖν καὶ καιρὸς τοῦ ἀποθανεῖν καιρὸς τοῦ φυτεῦσαι καὶ καιρὸς τοῦ ἐκτῖλαι πεφυτευμένον
WTT Ecclesiastes 3:2 עֵ֥ת לָלֶ֖דֶת וְעֵ֣ת לָמ֑וּת עֵ֣ת לָטַ֔עַת וְעֵ֖ת לַעֲק֥וֹר נָטֽוּעַ׃


So because Satan 'reverses' doctrines while keeping others in their natural state, he has reversed birthdays and timing in the Jehovah's Witnesses. Which is of particular interest since this puts the doctrine under the lime light.

Of course the timing goes beyond birthdays where God times deaths and events on the deaths of those close to you in some fashion. But the point still remains, birthdays are important.


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PostPosted: 01 Nov 2015, 00:25 
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Yeah, God does EVERYTHING by birthdays. So of course an apostate sect would have special reason to promote the opposite.

God help us all, what is the self also promoting, that is opposite? Thank God for 1John1:9 or none of us would escape!


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