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PostPosted: 15 Sep 2015, 02:13 
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One thing that KJV-onlyists should realize is that they're not using the original KJV (and it wasn't called the 'KJV' either, but the Authorized Version of 1611).

For example:
Quote:
John 3:16 For God so loued ye world, that he gaue his only begotten Sonne: that whosoeuer beleeueth in him, should not perish, but haue euerlasting life.


And what do the KJV-onlyists use? A modern 'update' to the old text:
Quote:
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


According to the KJV-only logic, the version they are using would be 'perverted' since it's not using the original character set and also contains additions like the apocrypha and also a preface that states it's NOT inspired; all of which is conveniently removed for the modern united states KJV-onlyist.

How 'convenient' that they get to ignore and remove the original AV 1611 preface
How 'convenient' that they get to ignore that it had the apocrypha
How 'convenient' that they get to ignore the fact it uses mythological creatures
How 'convenient' that they get to make a special exception for the fact it's okay to update the character set, but impose unequal restrictions such as removing the apocrypha and preface
How 'convenient' that they ignore that King James VI & I himself made his own translations of various passages of the Bible.

In other words, there's too much of a 'double standard' for the KJV to magically become inspired *once* it has received a rather heavy modernization today. Of course "believeth" still hasn't been changed to "believes", when it should. Otherwise you'll go talking around like a 17th century buffoon. Oh! But that old english is clearly inspired; so let us use an antiquated vocabulary instead in the year 2015. Absolutely.

Possibly one of the BIGGEST problems of using the KJV in 2015 with its old English, is that modern speakers very commonly misinterpret certain phrases and emphasis, that don't seem so obvious at first.

For example:
Quote:
John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that euery one which seeth the Sonne, and beleeueth on him, [highlight=yellow]may haue euerlasting life[/highlight]: and I will raise him vp at the last day.

"may have everlasting life", the "may have" was not meant to question it, but directly state you will. In modern English, this isn't usually interpreted this way. Of course if we just pop straight to the Greek, there is no "may have" so it's not even an issue!
Quote:
John 6:40 τοῦτο γάρ ἐστιν τὸ θέλημα τοῦ πατρός μου, ἵνα πᾶς ὁ θεωρῶν τὸν υἱὸν καὶ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν [highlight=yellow]ἔχῃ ζωὴν[/highlight] αἰώνιον, καὶ ἀναστήσω αὐτὸν ἐγὼ [ἐν] τῇ ἐσχάτῃ ἡμέρᾳ.

Literally "have life" in the highlighted Greek.

Here are more examples:
Quote:
Daniel 2:43 And whereas thou sawest yron mixt with myrie clay, [highlight=yellow]they shall mingle themselues[/highlight] with the seede of men: but they shall not cleaue one to an other, euen as yron is not mixed with clay.

"mingle" in 2015 means something completely different than it did in 1611.

Quote:
Exodus 28:13 And thou shalt make [highlight=yellow]ouches[/highlight] of gold;

Ouches? Nobody in 2015 will be able to interpret that without consulting an ancient dictionary, otherwise it looks like the plural form of "ouch".

Quote:
Leviticus 13:24 Or if there be any flesh in the skin whereof there is a hot burning, and the [highlight=yellow]quicke flesh[/highlight] that burneth haue a white bright spot, somewhat reddish, or white;

Nobody in 2015 will think "quick flesh" means "alive flesh".

Quote:
Genesis 44:15 And Ioseph said vnto them, What deed is this that ye haue done?[highlight=yellow]wote ye not[/highlight], that such a man as I can certainely diuine?

"wot ye not", nobody uses "wot" (which means 'know') anymore! Nobody.

It's a lost cause, the Authorized Version of 1611 uses extremely archaic and antiquated English; KJV-onlyists are not aware of it because they don't stress every single page of their modernized AV 1611s.


Last edited by hupostasis on 15 Sep 2015, 03:20, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 15 Sep 2015, 02:57 
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Great points, hupostasis. I'm having trouble proving WHICH of the KJV versions the KJVO do use. I've often read it was 1769, and did somewhere see that, but when looking in Amazon for KJV Bibles, I couldn't find any flyleaf to say which actual version was used. I know it will be in the flyleaf.

So: do you know which KJVs are sold by the KJVO, and how we can peek at the flyleaf?

Also, your Greek text is perfect, but i can't tell which font you're using. I sorta gave up on using Greek text online, thinking I'd have to back-invent it. But apparently not. What font are you using?

Thank you for your time!


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PostPosted: 15 Sep 2015, 03:29 
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Joined: 14 Sep 2015, 13:11
Posts: 383
brainout wrote:
Great points, hupostasis. I'm having trouble proving WHICH of the KJV versions the KJVO do use. I've often read it was 1769, and did somewhere see that, but when looking in Amazon for KJV Bibles, I couldn't find any flyleaf to say which actual version was used. I know it will be in the flyleaf.

So: do you know which KJVs are sold by the KJVO, and how we can peek at the flyleaf?

Also, your Greek text is perfect, but i can't tell which font you're using. I sorta gave up on using Greek text online, thinking I'd have to back-invent it. But apparently not. What font are you using?

Thank you for your time!


Some KJV-onlyists seem to use the *ahem, make sure you clear your throat* "The Pure Cambridge Edition":
http://www.biblicalscholarship.net/AV.htm

Most are probably oblivious and use the 1769 edition like the rest of us. There are differences between the modernizations, but they're so minor NOBODY would EVER notice just by casually reading it. You'd have to use a computer to compare all of the verses.
... Which brings me back to the argument, they may as well use the ORIGINAL "preserved" AV 1611 if they really want to be pure about it. But of course that's just too inconvenient for them to use the antiquated Latin alphabet.

phpBB is richtext, so it supports copying OLT directly from Bible Works or any Bible program. No special formatting was used, just a direct copy.


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PostPosted: 15 Sep 2015, 03:36 
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:jawdrop:

LOL Bibleprotector from Youtube's site! And, Print Your Own KJV! Thank you, hupostasis!

I can't get the Bibleworks text to just paste. So what setting are you using for paste? Sorry to trouble you!


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PostPosted: 16 Sep 2015, 02:57 
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Joined: 14 Sep 2015, 13:11
Posts: 383
brainout wrote:
:jawdrop:

LOL Bibleprotector from Youtube's site! And, Print Your Own KJV! Thank you, hupostasis!

I can't get the Bibleworks text to just paste. So what setting are you using for paste? Sorry to trouble you!


It appears Al Cuppett, a KJV-onlyist who used some sort of numeric scheme to 'prove' how it's divine, states to use the pure cambridge edition:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZRBQeibaps

Here's the numeric scheme for posterity's sake from the video description, I've highlighted the section where the video poster says outright the KJV has a divine author:
Quote:
The numerics used are from Ed Vallowe's book biblical mathematics.
This sample vid is from Al cuppets 1998 video Straight from the Joint Chiefs of Staff.
The mathematical precision of the KJV proves it has a divine author.
1=unity
2=union,division,witnessing
3=resurrection,divine,completeness and perfection
4=earth,world,creation,creator
5=grace or God's goodness
6=weakness of man,evils of satan,manifestation of sin
7=completeness spiritual perfection
8=newbirth,new creation or new beginning
9=fruit of spirit,divine completeness from the Lord
10=testimony law and responsibility
11=judgment and disorder **september 11th** 9+1+1=11
12=governmental perfection
13=depravity and rebellion
14=deliverance or salvation 15=rest
16=love
17=victory
18=bondage
19=faith
20=redemption
21=exceeding sinfulness of sin
22=light
23=death
24=the priesthood
25=the forgiveness of sins
26=the gospel of Christ
27=preaching of the gospel
28=Eternal life
29=departure
30=the blood of Christ dedications
31=offspring
32=covenant
33=promise
34=naming of a son
35=hope
36=the enemy
37=THE WORD OF GOD
38=slavery
39=disease
40=trials, probation, and testings
42=Irael's oppression Lord's advent or returning
45=preservation
50=Holy Spirit
60=pride
66=idol worship
70=Universality,Israels Restoration
100=Gods election of grace,children of promise
119= The resurrection day,Lords day
120=Divine period of probation
144=The spirit guided life
153=fruit bearing
200=insufficiency
600=warfare
666=the number of the beast, anti christ
888=The first resurrection saints
1000=Divine completeness and the Glory of God


The rabbit hole goes deeper, but I'll leave it at that.


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PostPosted: 16 Sep 2015, 17:18 
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:rofl: :ufograb:

Actual Bible Hebrew meter has a doctrinal meaning employed from Genesis to Revelation, sorta (tentative) as follows, which most folks in Theology have known for centuries from the ORIGINAL texts (though they do not know the meter)..

1: unity of the Godhead (Trinity each Member has Same Essence)
2: Hypostatic Union (God-man)
3: Trinity
4: completeness (i.e., four corners)
5: profit, restitution (the one-fifth in the Mosaic Law)
6: number of man
7: number of perfection and promise (sheba, in Hebrew)
8: doubled 4, Plan of God (really visible in Moses' and Isaiah's meter, but also elsewhere, the division being syntactical clauses not just counting syllables) -- with or without its completion being stressed.
9: trebled Trinity, God's Will completed or Decree (really patent in Moses, Isaiah, Daniel, Paul via Trinity meters, whole sections of text divisible by factors of three rather than seven in the original languages)
10: doubled 5.

21 Years Jacob enslaved himself to Laban, also same as the number of years to build EACH 1st and 2nd Temple, explicit Bible verses.
35 years, half-vote (70-year voting period), usual in meter to signify GOD's half of the vote (Moses, Isaiah, Mary, NT writers)
40 testing (number of years Israel in the Wilderness, famously known everywhere, I've never seen it in meter)
42 prominent in the meter of Moses, Isaiah, Daniel, Paul -- doubled 21, so means doubled growth (my conclusion, but you see why).
49 DIASPORA (Moses, Daniel, I don't remember seeing it in Isaiah, Paul)
50 Jubilee, the mass voting period for unbelievers 1000+50 (David being crowned during the 50 that ended the third 1050 since Adam's fall, in the 1050st anniversary of Abraham's maturation, 2046 after Adam's Fall per Genesis 5 and the verses on Abraham in Genesis 15, 17, and the verses on David in 1Samuel 5? and 1Kings 1-2).
56 49+7 sabbatical years that have to elapse on the 49 but cannot, since that extra time cannot be made up pre-Messiah: this is the most common meter pan Bible, every Bible writer uses it or plays on it (Daniel 9 uses 58 to play on Manasseh and Israel being late to the party), as the term also means the number of days between the start of Passover week and Pentecost, as well as the start of Pentecost to 9th Av when the Temple goes down.
63 Vote Short, used in Isaiah and Paul. Meaning, the 70-year voting period won't complete because the human 'half' of the voting is in jeopardy.
70 Believer mass Voting period in 490+70+490, with all the writers playing on the 490 in their meters.
84 God's Decree (doubled 42), used by Moses in Psalm 90 but allusively in Genesis 1.
1050 used by Moses as the close of the Genesis 1 meter, =490+70+490, so sets precedent for meter patterns in the Bible.

I could say more, but my fingers are tired from typing. Point is, the KJVO just make assertions about their numbers. What's above, can be proven IN the Real Bible, and I've done videos showing the meter directly in the text, since 2008 now.


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