Anonynomenon wrote:
How does outer darkness related to that? Well as you already know, I believe that the outer darkness refers to the darkness outside the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. Its dark outside from the Day the Lord.
Outer Darkness would be connected to the three faculties of salvation in the sense that outer darkness is connected with both unbelieving believers and unbelievers. So we're dealing with salvation #1 and salvation #2 (the state of being saved and the state of maturity).
Anonynomenon wrote:
So, my opinion of Outer Darkness is quite literal, and I believe it helps us understand the "Tribulation Sequence"...BUT, what does Outer Darkness imply? Well, its a penalty for believers who learn to hate Christ. They aren't just immature, they hate Christ by turning against fellow believers as seen in Matt 24:45-51.
As RBT would say, these are believes with so much scar tissue that they experience "blackout of the soul". So its quite ironic; those who blackout their souls get to sit in outer darkness.
Well my issue is that the tribulation is more or less reserved for unbelievers exclusively that won't 'mind change' and would rather attempt suicide. Those in outer darkness (believers) wouldn't be involved with that.
I'm also certain that you can screw up your soul regardless if you're a believer or an unbeliever. So if your soul is messed, it won't necessarily imply outer darkness.
Anonynomenon wrote:
@ Brainout
So continuing with the soul-garment line of thought, it seems that how you think determines what you wear.
Now lets look at hypocrisy (the opposite to the Mind of Christ).
Quote:
Luke 20:46“Beware of the scribes, who like to walk around in long robes, and love respectful greetings in the market places, and chief seats in the synagogues and places of honor at banquets, 47who devour widows’ houses, and for appearance’s sake offer long prayers. These will receive greater condemnation.”
Here we see the hypocrite scribes who think so highly of themselves that they wear the royal robes, sit in chief seats and take places of honour at the banquets. I can hear the words ringing in my mind; "last will be first and first will be last".
In the 5th Seal of Revelation, the martyrs are give white robes as well as the Great Multitude who serve the Lamb. It seems consistent that the maturity of your soul determines your heavenly clothing.
Thought always dictates what you wear, and in some ways people dress for ulterior reasons rather than just for fashion. For example Stalin liked to wear white so he'd look cleaner / holier than the other guys (I have no idea why Harry Truman is holding their hands in such a demented way, oh and only a democrat smiles while holding Stalin's hand):
Luke and Mark regarding the scribes and (most likely) the pharisees robes is due to the fact they were done for religious reasons. It's a RELIGIOUS mentality you have to avoid and it's deadly-- for many continue to this day like catholics and the orthodox.
Quote:
Luke 20:46 Pay attention from the scribes. They desire to walk around in robes and love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and have the chief seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at feasts.
Luke 20:46 προσέχετε ἀπὸ τῶν γραμματέων τῶν θελόντων περιπατεῖν ἐν στολαῖς καὶ φιλούντων ἀσπασμοὺς ἐν ταῖς ἀγοραῖς καὶ πρωτοκαθεδρίας ἐν ταῖς συναγωγαῖς καὶ πρωτοκλισίας ἐν τοῖς δείπνοις,
Mark 12:38 As he taught, Jesus said, "look at to PERCEIVE from the scribes. They desire to walk around in robes and be greeted with respect in the marketplaces,
Mark 12:38 Καὶ ἐν τῇ διδαχῇ αὐτοῦ ἔλεγεν· βλέπετε ἀπὸ τῶν γραμματέων τῶν θελόντων ἐν στολαῖς περιπατεῖν καὶ ἀσπασμοὺς ἐν ταῖς ἀγοραῖς
Also notice that Mark upgrades Luke with blepete (βλέπετε) it's specifically involving to deal with 'looking at'. So it's a cautionary observation. My modified translation edits could be off, but I'm trying to bring out the transition from προσέχετε to βλέπετε. Where the caution becomes to observe and see what they're doing. And that's quite the change when we're talking just with the robes-- because it's a RELIGIOUS mentality. So if you 'see' any stuck up priest wearing long (religious) clothing, you know to run and that they have zero doctrine in their head.
I wouldn't say that the scribes and pharisees were wearing "royal" robes as you say, since Christ is trying to emphasize that they're religious robes. I suppose it wouldn't hit you as hard unless you grew up with having to go to catholic mass.
Anonynomenon wrote:
@ Brainout
Well, I think with the 'outer darkness' issue, we need to find the literal interpretation first, then we can see what spiritual principles are applied. Matt 24 (last half) and 25 are very specific about one single event, the Day of the Lord, so I feel it has a very literal answer. If we try using a figurative interpretation first, then we risk overshooting dispensational boundaries.
Not saying your wrong either. It makes sense that spiritually distant believers have a physically distant place in the kingdom, and that is also implied by "outer darkness". But again, what is the primary message? Who is it primarily directed too? Not the Church in my opinion (Church was not supposed to happen).
I would disagree about the human spirit. Thieme taught that our human spirit is dead as a result of Adam's sin. If judicial salvation removes sin, then it removes what kills the spirit. We are born again (of water and SPIRIT-spiritual regeneration) as a direct result of judicial salvation. In my mind, the two go hand in hand.
I don't think it's being literal, as someone who is doctrinally in 'darkness' isn't in literal darkness. And it wouldn't make sense (to me) for God to place people in a literally darkened area, since God's method is always to get people 'to see'.
I can't comment on the "human spirit" since it's a foreign concept to me-- and it has so many variables associated to it that it could have a tome written on it, therefore I won't get into that.
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