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PostPosted: 03 Feb 2016, 08:47 
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Yeah. But being clothed with Christ is higher than just having clean clothes (Joshua analogy which is where, Zech 4?) -- Clothing is a thinking, Gal 4:19, Christ BORN in you, so your thinking WARDROBE would include gold silver precious stones, since those are also and even primarily, items of apparel.

So a baby in Christ is clothed with Christ, but as it were, in swaddling clothes. An adult can be simply dressed or regally dressed (Bible well understood, circulating in your SOC compared with mere Faith Rest or other basic doctrines).


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PostPosted: 04 Feb 2016, 21:37 
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@Brainout

I'm not sure a normal human adult mind can maintain clean swaddling. Sure, many adults are spiritual children, but it almost always shows as they are often short tempered and gossipy. In that case, an adult in swaddling would not have the right thinking to effectively resist adult level temptations.

But for a child in spiritual swaddling, the temptation USUALLY isn't at the same level as that of a physical adult. Though, I doubt this is always the case.

So whether dressed in Swaddling or Regal Robes, it seems that as long as the dressing is clean, entry into New Jerusalem and inheritance of the Kingdom is granted (like Christ said; "receive the kingdom of God like a little child").

Quote:
Isa 64:6 For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteousness are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.


It appears to me that if we go to Bema with soiled garments, then what we have as far as works (even that initial Talen/Minas investment imputed to us by Christ) will be redistributed. This is akin to the lazy servant's talent/minas being taken away. Why should a person in soiled garments be allowed to wear jewelry?

So unrighteousness circulating in the mind can literally "take us away" (Isa 64:6), to the Outer Darkness.

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PostPosted: 05 Feb 2016, 06:25 
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Well, in Zech 4 the clean robes of Joshua was salvation, not individual sin. Wedding garment.

Swaddling is like the GRADE of clothing you wear, post salvation. So dying in a state of sin, 1John 5:16, doesn't invalidate salvation.


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PostPosted: 06 Feb 2016, 07:07 
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brainout wrote:
Yeah, but that's the point. Clothing TYPE is an issue. Being clothed with Christ can be childish clothing or adult clothing, as 1 John2 shows.


Quote:
1John 2:12I am writing to you, little children, because your sins have been forgiven you for His name’s sake. 13I am writing to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I have written to you, children, because you know the Father. 14I have written to you, fathers, because you know Him who has been from the beginning. I have written to you, young men, because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, and you have overcome the evil one.


I see what you mean now by clothing grade:

1) Children have basic salvation (forgiveness of sins).

2) Young adults have overcome (abiding in Christ).

3) Mature adults have come to know the Father (fullness of maturity).

However, the issue still remains that admission into the Kingdom requires clean garments.

Dying in a state of sin does not invalidate salvation, and that is not what I meant to convey. But, 1John 5:16-17 does say that there are sins leading to death and sins that do not lead to death.

So the issue seems to be dying grace (with clean garments) vs sin unto death (with soiled garments).

I think if you die with soiled garments (sin unto death), your Talent/Minas investments are redistributed to the wealthiest bracket. But even a child with clean garments can keep his investment.

Based on this I still think there is an 'injury by second death' for cosmic believers. Again, why else would the nations need the leaves of the Tree of Life for healing...healing from what?

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PostPosted: 06 Feb 2016, 09:29 
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Well, let's take this one step at a time. Define 'soiled garments'.


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PostPosted: 06 Feb 2016, 21:39 
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brainout wrote:
Well, let's take this one step at a time. Define 'soiled garments'.



All unrighteousness is sin (1John 5:17).

Human righteousness are filthy garments (Isaiah 64:6)

Upon salvation, we recieve clean garments (Zech 3), but believers can still soil them again (Rev 3:4).

Therefore we must clean our garments of ALL URIGHTEOUSNESS with 1John 1:9.

We must keep our garments washed in the Blood of Christ (Rev 22:14) to enter New Jerusalem.

Rev 22:15 lists some sins that will keep you out of New Jerusalem, so I guess that is what soils garments.

Some sins lead to death, some don't (1John 5:17).

The sins that lead to death pollute the mind and cause addiction to those sins, so consistent use of 1John 1:9 and continuous study is needed to break the addiction and fill the mind with doctrine. If the addiction is not broken, then chances are death will come while the cosmic believer is unprepared, and they will die in a state of carnality, with filthy garments.

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PostPosted: 07 Feb 2016, 19:47 
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You're gonna need to talk with God about the red-ringed stuff I highlighted in your quote below. Or, wait until RBT covers them and then talk with God.

All sin is addictive. It's STOPPING the use of 1John1:9, not some magical quality in particular sins, which makes 1John5:16 happen. Again, talk to God about this, for my way of explaining it might not be what you need to see.

Anonynomenon wrote:
brainout wrote:
Well, let's take this one step at a time. Define 'soiled garments'.



All unrighteousness is sin (1John 5:17).

Human righteousness are filthy garments (Isaiah 64:6)

Upon salvation, we recieve clean garments (Zech 3), but believers can still soil them again (Rev 3:4).

Therefore we must clean our garments of ALL URIGHTEOUSNESS with 1John 1:9.

We must keep our garments washed in the Blood of Christ (Rev 22:14) to enter New Jerusalem.
Rev 22:15 lists some sins that will keep you out of New Jerusalem, so I guess that is what soils garments.
Some sins lead to death, some don't (1John 5:17).

The sins that lead to death pollute the mind and cause addiction to those sins, so consistent use of 1John 1:9 and continuous study is needed to break the addiction and fill the mind with doctrine. If the addiction is not broken, then chances are death will come while the cosmic believer is unprepared, and they will die in a state of carnality, with filthy garments.


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PostPosted: 26 Apr 2016, 06:24 
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My attention was led to Psalm 82 today, and I thought of this thread.

Quote:
1God takes His stand in His own congregation;
He judges in the midst of the rulers.
2How long will you judge unjustly
And show partiality to the wicked?......

6 I said, “You are gods,
And all of you are sons of the Most High.

7 “Nevertheless you will die like men
And fall like any one of the princes.”


My initial assumption is that believers are the one's called gods and sons of the Most High, since we are born again in Christ, and He dwells within us (along with Father and HS). Yet when we get to verse 7, people like to disassociate from the application, by saying that 'dying like men and falling like princes' is a reference to non-believers only.

Here is my point. If believers are called gods and sons of the Most High, then believers can 'die like men and fall like princes' too. I'm not talking about a loss of salvation, but a failure to rehabilitate the soul with Bible, and an abortion of royalty.

Therefore, failing to grow up is a form of death in eternity. You will still have your soul and salvation, but the mental/personal relationship with God will be dead, or in a vegetative state.

On the flip side, Jesus did quote Psalm 82:6 in John 10:34 and applied it to the Jews who rejected Him, therefore, it must have application for non-believers too....specifically for Israel. As if Jesus were implying, 'you are supposed to be gods, but because you don't believe, you will die like men.'

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PostPosted: 26 Apr 2016, 06:55 
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Yeppers. Did a whole channel on that, https://vimeo.com/channels/psalm82


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PostPosted: 26 Apr 2016, 15:14 
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Cool. I'll have to take some time to go through it. Its just so exciting how you can reread something that meant one thing to you, and then suddenly see a whole new message tying into so many doctrines.

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PostPosted: 26 Apr 2016, 18:25 
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Well, you're already into doctrine, so maybe only view the first video, which gives the corrected translation. For you already 'got it' about John 10:34, so the only missing piece for you, is the Psalm 82:1 corr trans in Hebrew (which first video displays live in Bibleworks). You'll get it fast.

I always make long videos and writeups for those not already aware of the doctrines, or for those who are aware of the text, but didn't THINK ABOUT IT in the way shown. All my stuff is only for brainstorming, never selling.


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PostPosted: 03 May 2016, 04:14 
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BTW, just got an idea. Remember the Colonel's X+Y+Z? Those are the three types. but it's really more than that. Z stands for eternity, but even then, people need to be 'saved' from their ignorance, daily. So every day is a drama, something to be learned, a success story that ever escalates and never ends. That's why the unending 'crosses' of those more-mature, getting to help the lesser; and the lesser, bearing out the learning process.

Also, thinking about how Matt24:13's 'I don't know you' has no weeping and gnashing clause. Either it's temporal (life down here only), or if eternal, depicts distance in heaven. Which goes back to, the weeping thread, here.


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PostPosted: 03 May 2016, 05:07 
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Long post.

I've been thinking a lot about this topic lately. I have some ideas, but I can't seem to pull it all together. I agree, X+Y+Z depicts all Three Salvations.

My understanding of Matt 25:12-13 in the most literal sense is that Jesus is talking specifically about believers on the earth at the Second Advent. So the wise who are taken in, are entering the Wedding, while the foolish are left out. If these people are still flesh and blood at Christ's return, then I would say that they still have the whole Millennium as an opportunity to grow.

Quote:
Z stands for eternity, but even then, people need to be 'saved' from their ignorance, daily

This is what I categorize as INJURY BY SECOND DEATH. Death means nothing more than separation. If physical, then death is separation from body. If spiritual, then human spirit is separated from God. HOWEVER, I do believe there is also soul death, which is separation from God's THINKING. So those who need 'salvation from eternal ignorance' are INJURED BY SECOND DEATH in contrast to non-believers who experience the FULL EXTENT OF SECOND DEATH (they are completely separated in the Lake of Fire).

Think about the Tree of Life: The Fruit vs the Leaves. The Tree of Life represents Doctrine, and the Fruit represents maximum capacity for happiness (as the Colonel puts it). So what are the Leaves? Maybe the leaves are the means of the daily salvation of the ignorant. They don't have capacity for the Fruit, so they get to chew on the leaves like apes....as an on going therapy to heal their INJURY.

So basically, I believe the Outer Darkness/Weeping and Gnashing is used both literally and figuratively to describe a state of existence that has both temporary and eternal effects.

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PostPosted: 03 May 2016, 06:49 
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But the soul cannot die, and God is not benefitted by eternally-ignorant believers. They would naturally have SMALL souls, since only MD can increase soul size, but wouldn't that then mean a VERY SLOW yet constantly-increasing GROWTH in the eternal state? So all thoughts are pleasing to God, even if small and stunted, but increasing?

Colonel speculated that once you die, you're spiritually frozen. I guess I'm saying that doesn't sound right. He never turned that speculation into a dogma or doctrine, either.


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PostPosted: 03 May 2016, 07:18 
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The Soul can not cease to exist. When we think of death, we tend to think of annihilation, but the Biblical definition of Death doesn't seem to be annihilation, but separation. Our thinking can be separated from God. In that sense, the soul can die, as in separation.

In Greek, the soul is called the Psuche/Psyche.

In the case of the non-believer, there is total Psychological/Psuche Death (total separation from God's thinking).

In the case of the cosmic believer, its more like Psychological/Psuche Atrophy (which requires a continuous Rx for the leaves of the Tree of Life).

If all souls are growing at least at a minimal rate, then the poor will still be poor in comparison to the rich. Economic inflation. Plus, how will Epignosis be tested in the Eternal State?

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PostPosted: 03 May 2016, 22:34 
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Tested? See no reason for testing. It's kinda like what the Colonel said about ESCROW BLESSINGS. Those who didn't mature, don't get them. Biggest blessing is KNOWING GOD. So then they will know a little, least category, Jer 31:31-34 quoted as bookends in Heb 8:8-12 through 10:15-17. So it's still a kind of 'separation', much like poor versus rich.


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PostPosted: 04 May 2016, 01:26 
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Well, if I understood the Colonel correctly, somewhere in his study of Thiatyra, he mentioned that there will be no temptation to resist during the Eternal State, therefore no testing of our application of Doctrine. If you can't be tested, then your performance cannot be evaluated to qualify for Escrow Blessings. So maybe there will be growth, but no way to test that growth, no pressure testing.

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PostPosted: 04 May 2016, 01:45 
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Escrow blessings have to be awarded pre-death.


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PostPosted: 04 May 2016, 01:51 
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That's exactly what I mean. You can only be tested in temporal life, so Escrow can only be awarded pre-death.

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PostPosted: 04 May 2016, 02:10 
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Okay, but escrow blessings don't preclude spiritual growth post-death, especially given the verses I just gave you in Jeremiah and Hebrews.


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PostPosted: 04 May 2016, 02:27 
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But what Jeremiah 31 and Hebrew 8&10 are talking about is KNOWLEDGE of God, which the Colonel called EPIGNOSIS. According to him, Epignosis alone does not guarantee growth. The Epignosis must be applied during testing for growth to occur. So in order for growth to occur during the Eternal State, there would have to be SOME FORM of testing. I don't think that is the case.

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PostPosted: 04 May 2016, 02:36 
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Epignosis IS growth. 'Testing' is living ON what you learned. It's still growth, either way, and the eternal state is FREE, so then plenty of opportunity to grow, still.


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PostPosted: 04 May 2016, 03:05 
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Ok. So Epignosis is growth of the Kardia. But still, no testing in Eternal State since there is no temptation to resist, therefore no further reward for growth apart from daily Epignosis. So that explains WHY there is growth with no Escrow Blessings in Eternal State and WHY Escrow can be awarded in TEMPORAL LIFE only.

So does that mean that the Leaves of the Tree of Life represent Epignosis???

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PostPosted: 04 May 2016, 03:13 
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If there's no temptation to resist, there's no freedom. FREE not to sin. The temptations will be for the low to accept the high and vice versa, to use MD even as now. If FREE then temptation remains, but NO SIN NATURE means we won't want to sin.. freely.

Think: the elect angels are free. Never says that one cannot sin post-death, anywhere. But the problem is, sin is attractive to us, down here. Won't be, up there, just as it isn't to the angels.

I don't know about what Leaves on the Tree mean.


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PostPosted: 04 May 2016, 03:43 
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I see what you mean. I'm used to thinking of temptation coming from the Sin Nature alone, but I didn't stop to think about Satan's fall. He didn't start off with a Sin Nature like we did.

Ok, so there is growth, but is there a way to grow your way out of spiritual poverty? Or was that a one-time shot with the Escrows awarded during temporal life?

If so, why would Escrow opportunity only be limited to temporal life?

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PostPosted: 04 May 2016, 03:45 
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Okay, since we will be like Christ, and He is free, but will be SMALLER, it's like growing with a small bank account rather than a large one. Small 'deposits' of MD daily still grow, but very slowly. That's where I differ from the Colonel, on the grounds that it's not fair to Father to hear frozen souls.


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PostPosted: 04 May 2016, 03:48 
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So growth, but with locked-in interest rates.

What do you mean by MD? Mature Doctrine?

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PostPosted: 04 May 2016, 03:56 
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Metabolized Doctrine (aka epignosis), Thieme's term.


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PostPosted: 17 May 2016, 20:58 
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What would you say is the difference between the garments (hematia) of Rev 3:5, and the robes (stolei) in Rev 6:11???

At first, I though maybe slolei was for martyrs only, but Rev 22:14 seems to imply that it is available for all winner believers.

Are they simply interchangeable terms?

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PostPosted: 18 May 2016, 00:37 
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Well, himation is inner, stole is outer, so likely the latter distinguishes the winner. Poor didn't have stole. If you worked in the fields, you just had himation. When you dressed up, you added stole.


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 Post subject: Re: Garments and Robes
PostPosted: 18 May 2016, 01:22 
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Ok, so that explains why Rev 3:4 says, "they will walk with me in whites (pural)". That must include both garment and robe.

I was listening to the Colonel talk about the Uniforms of Honor and Glory. He didn't mention the robes, but its been bugging me for a long time.

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PostPosted: 18 May 2016, 01:48 
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Well, I don't remember how Thieme commented on it, could be. Technically they are FESTIVE garments (citations in BDAG meaning #2 for leukos. So maybe ties to wedding attire?

Problem with that claim of wedding, is that Romans didn't use white for weddings. I forget what color it was, but not white.


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PostPosted: 18 May 2016, 03:46 
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I don't think its necessarily a wedding reference, but I suppose its a possibility. What were the Hebrew wedding colors???

Anyways, another thing that has been bugging me in relation to the robes vs garments is the washing of the robes in the Blood of the Lamb (Rev 7:14). I know that the Blood of Christ is the foundation of Salvation 1, but I didn't know how it applied in Salvation 2 until now.
Quote:
Rev 7:14 they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


Lambs' blood was used to symbolize the atonement for sin, but we know that the Blood of Christ is NOT LITERAL. The Colonel made that very clear. We also know that Christ paid for our sins with His THOUGHTS.

Its just now that I realized that Chirst's thoughts are His Blood, in the same way that the Kardia refers to the mentality of the Soul. So Christ's Kardia/Heart pumped His thoughts.

Therefore, to 'wash your robe in the Blood of the Lamb' is to THINK LIKE CHRIST.

I can see now that Blood of Christ has at least two applications:

Salvation 1
: Atonement for Original Sin and Personal Sins. Allowing for regeneration of the human spirit.

Salvation 2: For 'rehabilitation of the soul'.

The question is, how does it apply to Salvation 3???


Then I thought about John 19:34.
Quote:
But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out.


So blood consists of two primary components; the cells and the plasma. The John calls it the blood (αἷμα) and water (ὕδωρ). We could then say that the concentrated of blood cells represents basic mentality, and the water represents the Word of God. Jesus had to grow up on Bible too, so His Blood (of Christ) was His thinking (αἷμα) with the Word of God (ὕδωρ).

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PostPosted: 18 May 2016, 05:01 
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Well, Isaiah 53:10 FLAT TELLS YOU that His Blood is his thinking, paying for sin: b'daato yatsdiq . So that's where the Colonel go the teaching from. So 'Blood of Christ' is the NT usage of that verse. Blood circulates in body, thoughts circulate in soul, but the soul is the real you.

So Salv 1 is JUST BELIEVE, and saved to heaven.
Salv2, get HIS THOUGHTS in you, and 1mature. I tried to explain all that in http://www.brainout.net/DDNA.htm but it's really long.
Salv3 is 1Cor15, new body. Like His body, 1John2:26-3:2.

I don't think the color for Hebrew weddings is relevant, for the terms are all Roman.


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 Post subject: Re: Blood of Christ
PostPosted: 18 May 2016, 05:22 
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Quote:
Well, Isaiah 53:10 FLAT TELLS YOU that His Blood is his thinking, paying for sin: b'daato yatsdiq . So that's where the Colonel go the teaching from. So 'Blood of Christ' is the NT usage of that verse. Blood circulates in body, thoughts circulate in soul, but the soul is the real you.


I've never heard the Colonel's lessons on Isaiah. I knew about the Blood of Christ, and I knew that Christ paid for sins with thoughts, but I just never put the two concepts together. I don't know why, since the connection is so BLATANTLY OBVIOUS now, I guess I just never spent much time pondering it. Its comforting to know that the Holy Spirit is reverse engineering these concepts for me. That's what's so fascinating about Revelation, it ties the entire Bible together into one Unified Doctrine...hence the title: Ἀποκάλυψις Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ.

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PostPosted: 18 May 2016, 06:10 
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Well, you'll hear Thieme cover it eventually. It's the doctrine on which he's the most attacked. DTS even chartered someone to write his ThD thesis on it, can you believe that. Really stupid thing, to write about whether some pastor's 'doctrine' is right. Shameful.


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PostPosted: 18 May 2016, 06:32 
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Yeah, that is pretty low. There's a smear-piece on Thieme's teaching on the Blood of Christ, at jesus-is-savior.com. I remember skimming through it years ago when I first googled "R. B. Thieme Jr", just to see how popular he was. In fact, that's how I found your videos on youtube. Anyways, its just the same old song and dance, theologians screaming heresy at each other, just like the Byzantine church.

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HEB 4:12
The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


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PostPosted: 18 May 2016, 07:06 
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Yeah, talk to hupostasis re jesus-is-savior.com . KJVO site he knows a lot about.


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PostPosted: 27 May 2016, 03:58 
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How did the Colonel teach John 3:5? How did he put it?
Quote:
5Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

I know most interpret the water as birthing fluids, but I don't remember if the Colonel held that position or not.

The reason I ask is because of the contrast between verses 3 and 5:

Quote:
“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.



This makes me wonder if water is a reference to salvation 2. Its one thing to see the kingdom of God, which does require salvation 1, but in order to enter the kingdom, you have to live continuously on the Word/Water (salvation 2).

So is it possible that Jesus is saying that to enter the kingdom, you must be born (out) of Doctrine and Spirit?

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HEB 4:12
The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


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PostPosted: 27 May 2016, 04:19 
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Yes, the Colonel taught birthing fluids, often stopping to talk about the breaking of the amniotic sac. But surely water of the Word is also relevant.


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PostPosted: 27 May 2016, 04:37 
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Yeah, after posting that, I came across this passage.

Quote:
Ephesians 5:26 so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless

Powerful stuff.


I also noticed that both ἁγιάσῃ (might sanctify) and παραστήσῃ (might present) are both in the subjunctive mood. Doesn't that mean that it might not happen to the whole Church?

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HEB 4:12
The word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of the soul and the spirit, of the joints and marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


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PostPosted: 27 May 2016, 05:14 
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Well, subjunctive of purpose means something which hasn't finished yet, but is purposed and ongoing. Subjunctive has other meanings too, but in that passage it's subj of purpose.


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