FrankForum (Frankness IS Forum)

No ads, no mods, Frankly Anonymous (you can join w/fake name/email, are not tracked)!
It is currently 21 Sep 2021, 16:18

All times are UTC

Forum rules

GUESTS AND MEMBERS CAN POST HERE. Not moderated, so you are on your own. Spambots and stalkers and anti-semites will be deleted and banned without notice. Else, try to be thoughtful, protect your own privacy, don't swear much (makes one appear infantile), but I won't censor. POLICE YOURSELF.

Post a reply
Message body:
Enter your message here, it may contain no more than 999999 characters. 

Font size:
Font colour
BBCode is ON
[img] is OFF
[flash] is OFF
[url] is ON
Smilies are OFF
Disable BBCode
Do not automatically parse URLs
How do you tie a knot?:
This question is a means of preventing automated form submissions by spambots.

Topic review - Ecclesiastes meter
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: Ecclesiastes meter  Reply with quote
You're eliding too much, to shoehorn into a sevening. Don't do any eliding at first, see if you find meter patterns (i.e., two or more clauses of the same syllable counts, so maybe they are meant to parallel each other); then elide accordingly. The text might not mean to seven except rarely, like Revelation 17 (which really is one chapter thru Chap19, but I can't do it now): Rev doesn't seven at all after 252, until 868 or maybe (if NO elisions), 875. Even so, the chapter end in English is not the end in Greek so who knows how it will go.

I'd bet whole chapters only seven at the dateline beginning and at the end so you can know you counted the syllables rightly. Not every chapter needs to seven a lot. Timelines need to show the sevening time deadlines, but surely many chapters are not meant to be timelines.
Post Posted: 08 Apr 2017, 06:47
  Post subject:  Re: Ecclesiastes meter  Reply with quote
I updated the Ecclesiastes meter for chapter one. It is posted in the Original Post.
Post Posted: 08 Apr 2017, 06:15
  Post subject:  Re: Ecclesiastes meter  Reply with quote
I don't think Solomon was out of fellowship while writing Ecc. I think he must have been writing retrospectively, on what he learned about being out of fellowship for long periods of time. Basically, everything is vanity, everything will pass away. God and His word are all there is to make it worth while.
Post Posted: 08 Apr 2017, 01:43
  Post subject:  Re: Ecclesiastes meter  Reply with quote
POST STILL UNDER CONSTRUCTION until this line is removed.

Wait, need to reclassify the numbers. Just hit me, what those datelines might mean and yes there are three. Talk to God, k? Two agree, etc.

Seems like Solomon is adopting the Genesis 1/John meter style of using every clause as a date. But for SURE he's playing on the Davidic 14s in 2Sam23. If we just go by verses to eliminate quibbles over where the clauses parse, 2Sam23:1 is 42 syllables, and 23:2 is 14. Verse 3 is 28, elision of some kind has to occur between the end of elohe and the start of Yisrael. So the total is 84 syllables.

I just don't know exactly what he benchmarks.

I had to fix it, so if you downloaded it prior to 4/7/17 at 10:30 pm Central Time US, you need to download it again. Next I'll try to fill in what's below.

I, Solomon, write you 14th/14 year after
which is 56 years after
when David would have been age 91, the Temple was Dedicated
and I'm writing when he would have been age 119?
and I'm writing when the Kingship of Israel (since Saul) is 119 years old (play on Moses writing en 1:5 when he was 119)?

So Solomon is writing Ecc in his last year of reign. So whatever time he was out of fellowship, it's not when he writes Ecc, so it's retrospective exposition. Or maybe Chap1 is a cover letter of sorts, and he's now PUBLISHING stuff he wrote when out of fellowship.

Wait, gotta rethink.

Given the changed meter in 2Sam23, suggest you make 1a=6 syllables and 5b=4, for if you do that makes it clearer Solomon is aping David's syllable counts, changing first dateline to 70 when Solomon began rule. His age 80 when Temple construction began, age 91 when Temple Dedicated, and 119 remain intact.

Those changes then also reflect the paired 15s David uses and match when he became king at Hebron. I suspect the resultant 76 should be 77 but don't know how.

But then, we have 70 91 119 as datelines. What do they mean? Not sure. BBL.
Post Posted: 07 Apr 2017, 17:20
  Post subject:  Re: Ecclesiastes meter  Reply with quote
Wow. I see what you mean. 119 will be clarified after you do the rest of the meter. Since he benchmarks at 80, and 1Kings6:1 essentially says the Temple started construction when David would have been 80, seems like Solomon is writing the year after the Temple was dedicated, hence the 3 emphasis? Remember, he'd spent a total of 20, 13 years he spent on his own stuff; so when David would have been 91, making the year of writing 949, a year after 1Kings9? So he's parsing the 3's and 10 to 3 year hiatus after David died (1Kings2:39), then 7 for building, then dedication, total of 10; 13-3 on his palace, hence the total is 20, yet 13 total years he also spent building other stuff. But that's a third dateline, we'd have to know for sure what the first two mean.

So if he really was out of fellowship, must have been during. I thought Thieme said Eccles is about his time out of fellowship (but maybe written partly or mostly after he recovered, looking back on that time)?
Post Posted: 07 Apr 2017, 09:23
  Post subject:  Ecclesiastes meter  Reply with quote
I plan on metering the entire book of Ecclesiastes. I've started with chapter one. Right now, I'm just playing around with it, but here is what I have so far. Its a word document, so you can play with it if you like. I know its probably better to count all syllables (I'll take care of that part later) before picking elisions, but I tend to meter as I go along.

Ecclesiastes.docx [16.08 KiB]
Downloaded 528 times
Post Posted: 07 Apr 2017, 03:47

All times are UTC

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited