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Read vs. Reed:
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Topic review - Psalm 12 Meter
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: Psalm 12 Meter  Reply with quote
Yes. That's the point Jeff Benner was trying to make in his video. Gesenius Section 58 flat says that, as well: THERE IS NO THIRD PERSON PLURAL. The KJV marginal note on titsrennu says that they used English 'them' only because it's got the same idiomatic meaning then in ENGLISH, but that the term meant the people.

All this is well known stuff.. but the KJVO as always, and especially edwardpf123, can't or won't admit it.
Post Posted: 03 May 2017, 10:10
  Post subject:  Re: Psalm 12 Meter  Reply with quote
So then, shouldn't verse 7 be translated, "you will protect us" rather than, "thou shalt preserve them"? David would then be including himself with those who are "oppressed of the poor", as translated in verse 5a...thus showing that humility is the focus, not poverty.

According my Hebrew grammar book, "Biblical Hebrew: A Compact Guide", by MIles V. Van Pelt, page 46 lists nu as a pronominal suffix, defined as us/ours.

So not only did the KJV fail to clarify the translation by context, they got the translation flat wrong.
Post Posted: 02 May 2017, 19:27
  Post subject:  Re: Psalm 12 Meter  Reply with quote
So assuming parsed rightly, 14 21 42 42 35 35 so far. 77 doubled in palindrome (14 21 42 then 42 35).

You saw the many videos proving that 'them' does not mean 'words' in the Hebrew? It's a special construction that only refers to PEOPLE (nu ending). See Gesenius section 58. Sadly, edwardpf123 cannot read English, and he thinks that section proves him right. But when YOU read it, you'll see it refutes him.

KJV translators knew it, too. They have marginal notes which reference how they used 'them' for the nu ending BECAUSE they knew it meant people, which in English we impersonalize with 'them' rather than 'him' or 'us' (cuz there is no 3rd person plural in the Hebrew form). For I wasn't the only one trying to explain this BASIC GRAMMAR ISSUE to eddie baby, who claims he attended Berachah while I was physically there (!) yet cannot decipher case endings:
Post Posted: 29 Apr 2017, 04:14
  Post subject:  Psalm 12 Meter  Reply with quote
I was debating some KJVO people, and wound up metering Psalm 12 in the process. They tried to use Psalm 12:6-7 to prove that the KJV bible is the only divinely inspired/preserved Word of God, so I went overboard and buried their argument with quick meter. I don't know if it was the right decision or not, but the result was this meter, so I figured I might as well share it here. I will be converting it to PDF later.

Verse 1a
לַמְנַצֵּ֥חַ עַֽל־הַשְּׁמִינִ֗ית מִזְמֹ֥ור לְדָוִֽד׃
14 Syllables (7x2)
AV Translation: "To the chief Musician upon Sheminith, A Psalm of David."

Verse 1b
הֹושִׁ֣יעָה יְ֭הוָה כִּי־גָמַ֣ר חָסִ֑יד כִּי־פַ֥סּוּ אֱ֝מוּנִ֗ים מִבְּנֵ֥י אָדָֽם׃
21 Syllables (7x3)
AV Translation: "Help, LORD; for the godly man ceaseth; for the faithful fail from among the children of men."

Verse 2-3
שָׁ֤וְא ׀ יְֽדַבְּרוּ֮ אִ֤ישׁ אֶת־רֵ֫עֵ֥הוּ שְׂפַ֥ת חֲלָקֹ֑ות בְּלֵ֖ב וָלֵ֣ב יְדַבֵּֽרוּ׃
יַכְרֵ֣ת יְ֭הוָה כָּל־שִׂפְתֵ֣י חֲלָקֹ֑ות לָ֝שֹׁ֗ון מְדַבֶּ֥רֶת גְּדֹלֹֽות׃
42 Syllables (7x6)
AV Translation: "They speak vanity every one with his neighbour: with flattering lips and with a double heart do they speak. The LORD shall cut off all flattering lips, and the tongue that speaketh proud things"

Verse 4-5a
אֲשֶׁ֤ר אָֽמְר֨וּ ׀ לִלְשֹׁנֵ֣נוּ נַ֭גְבִּיר שְׂפָתֵ֣ינוּ אִתָּ֑נוּ מִ֖י אָדֹ֣ון לָֽנוּ׃
מִשֹּׁ֥ד עֲנִיִּים֮ מֵאַנְקַ֪ת אֶבְיֹ֫ונִ֥ים עַתָּ֣ה אָ֭קוּם יֹאמַ֣ר יְהוָ֑ה
42 Syllables (7x6)
AV Translation: "Who have said, With our tongue will we prevail; our lips are our own: who is lord over us? For the oppression of the poor, for the sighing of the needy, now will I arise, saith the LORD"

Verse 5b-6
אָשִׁ֥ית בְּ֝יֵ֗שַׁע יָפִ֥יחַֽ לֹֽו׃
אִֽמֲרֹ֣ות יְהוָה֮ אֲמָרֹ֪ות טְהֹ֫רֹ֥ות כֶּ֣סֶף צָ֭רוּף בַּעֲלִ֣יל לָאָ֑רֶץ מְ֝זֻקָּ֗ק שִׁבְעָתָֽיִם׃
35 Syllables (7x5)
AV Translation: "I will set him in safety from him that puffeth at him. The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times."

Verse 7-8
אַתָּֽה־יְהוָ֥ה תִּשְׁמְרֵ֑ם תִּצְּרֶ֓נּוּ ׀ מִן־הַדֹּ֖ור ז֣וּ לְעֹולָֽם׃
סָבִ֗יב רְשָׁעִ֥ים יִתְהַלָּכ֑וּן כְּרֻ֥ם זֻ֝לּ֗וּת לִבְנֵ֥י אָדָֽם׃
35 Syllables (7x5)
AV Translation: "Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever. The wicked walk on every side, when the vilest men are exalted."

There might be more subsevening in a few places, but I think most of the sevening is represented as parsed. I counted it by clause, but didn't parse it that way, to keep things simple. I'll be reviewing it later, but for now I'm just parking it here for the sake of documentation.
Post Posted: 25 Apr 2017, 02:19

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