FrankForum (Frankness IS Forum)

No ads, no mods, Frankly Anonymous (you can join w/fake name/email, are not tracked)!
It is currently 01 Aug 2021, 10:09

All times are UTC

Forum rules

GUESTS AND MEMBERS can post here.
Extra Smileys: ... _Editor_QR

Not moderated, so you are on your own. Spambots, stalkers and anti-semites will be banned without notice. Else, POLICE YOURSELF.

Post a reply
Message body:
Enter your message here, it may contain no more than 999999 characters. 

Font size:
Font colour
BBCode is ON
[img] is OFF
[flash] is OFF
[url] is ON
Smilies are OFF
Disable BBCode
Do not automatically parse URLs
dogs are not:
This question is a means of preventing automated form submissions by spambots.

Topic review - John's Meter
Author Message
  Post subject:  Re: John's Meter  Reply with quote
Series will resume after October 15th, with a much-more indepth 'Quantum Bible' showing all the related passages for the Constantine-Justinian I period.
Post Posted: 08 Oct 2017, 02:12
  Post subject:  Re: John's Meter  Reply with quote
Actually, that might mean Gen1:1 first sevens AT seven. The cadence is the same in John1:1 when you read it. That would explain why there IS hiatus in John 1:1, which bugged me. Problem is, to change sylls in shamayim then must be repeated in all other instances where it occurs. Will that work?

Pretending it does, that would mean Moses first benchmarks something from seven years prior. Should be in the books of Numbers and/or Exodus. Will have to find out what that is. The other meter still stands. 7, though, would be first. Should be related to the Temple, which in Moses' day might be the completion of the Tabernacle? Or something about RE-doing the Tabernacle? Dunno.
Post Posted: 12 Aug 2017, 11:18
  Post subject:  Re: John's Meter  Reply with quote
I was comparing John 1:1 to Genesis 1:1, and I realized the first lines in each total at 16.

Gen 1:1 is currently elided as follows:
בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ׃

That brings it to 16 syllables, however, look at the current parsing for John 1:1...
Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος,
7 Syllables
καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν Θεόν
9 Syllables

What if we try replicating John's style in Gen 1? (or really, it would be John playing on Moses.)
בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית בָּרָ֣א אֱלֹהִ֑ים
7 Syllables
אֵ֥ת הַשָּׁמַ֖יִם וְאֵ֥ת הָאָֽרֶץ׃
9 Syllables

This time, the aleph in Elohim is swallowed, since the aleph in bara precedes it, and in hashamayim , the ai is pronounced as a diphthong. We still have 16 syllables, but now it looks like John 1:1 is following Gen 1:1's rhythm.

I realize that Gen 1:1 is one full clause. So I'm not saying that it should be broken down or that the dateline should be 7. I just think that John might be following along with the cadence of Gen 1:1, as he cleverly subdivides the meter.
Post Posted: 12 Aug 2017, 05:45
  Post subject:  John's Meter  Reply with quote
John's meter is extremely helpful, since he knows he's the last Bible writer, and so has to incorporate by reference all prior Divine Writ. Sadly for us, our forebears didn't pass on what they learned when this style was known all over the ancient world, at least by those educated in Scripture. So we have to back into it. Happily for us, God preserved THE REAL BIBLE, not merely some translation, so we have the original words to parse.

John has a distinctive style of using EACH clause parsing, whether it sevens or not, to elucidate his text. Paul did that on occasion, but John does it every time. What's most astonishing about his use of the meter, is how he switches dateline formulas between Christ's Age (shoulda-been or actual, which had been the standard measure since Mary used it), and the Adamic or sacred year since Adam's fall. Makes it real easy to pinpoint what dates he has in mind. That matters, so you know what his otherwise-generic text, specifically targets. Drole.

John's simple but profound writing style is reflected in the meter.
  • The meter 'theme' for his Gospel is '98' (Christ's Year when Mill was due to start, meaning 97th birthday=start of His 98th year);
  • 1John is 231 (God's Metered Reply to Daniel in Dan9:24-27, which Paul plays on in Eph 1:3-14).
  • Rev is 364 (Noah's time in the Boat which Paul factors all throughout his anaphora totals in Eph 1:3-14, and Paul's four 91's as 'quarters' of Church, ending with the winter of Church discontent).
  • Gospel is countdown to Mill, which is a birthday present to Christ. Implies it begins on Chanukah.* Temple is already down, so John's focusing on the Temple the Temple depicted.
  • 1John is a play on the wars and rumors of wars and the promise that Church will complete and bridge Time (wifely thing to do) for Israel -- parallelling the text in Daniel 9:24-27 by way of copying its meter.
  • Rev is the whole idea of DELIVERANCE, that's why the Noahic time is selected. Also, it plays on Paul's structure of four 'quarters' of Church, so has the connotation of a whole Dispensation. Idea of completing all of them. End of flooding, Daniel 9:26-27, end of drowning, end of waiting, end of year, Christ's birthday and Saturnalia thus tweaked like Paul did in Gal4:4.. get it?
So this analysis is very rough, first draft. The only thing 'conclusive' about it, is to demonstrate that meter is a valid rhetorical style. Whether the meter shown is correctly parsed, well.. you decide. It's a forensic task, so doesn't need the blessing of some hoary head, though I'd sure like to find someone 'respectable' who's done such analysis. Alas, so far, I find no one else. I wanted to post this in B-Greek but they require your real name.

So please be skeptical, use 1John1:9 and parse/test before God.

So I did videos on his meter, and the doc is here: . You can substitute htm or doc format if you prefer, but you'd need Bibleworks fonts for them.

Here's the playlist, which vimeo sadly won't allow to embed.

There are important variants in each of the three writings, Gospel, 1John (I didn't meter 2 or 3John), and Rev. These are deal-breakers for the meter, so detail on them is provided. I used the CNTTS apparatus in BW9, and the videos cover the variants in some detail.

Rev plays a lot on Paul's Ephesians meter, so you'll have to get into that latter, as well.

* Just because a thing is scheduled, doesn't mean it will happen that way. As also true in the OT, 2100 years was allotted for the goyim, 2100 for the Jews, but it could have not finished, if volition were negative. Here, it SEEMS the Mill is still scheduled for Chanukah as a birthday present to Christ, with the clear implication being that the Trib is slated to begin on Chanukah, too. But 'slated' is not 'promised'. And the other thing is, when John wrote, it still could have happened that way. But now? Who knows. So the meter tells us what was expected pre-Church, at a minimum. Might be telling us what God aims at, but via which Will? Permissive? Directive? Overriding? After all, a birthday present can be given late or early, too.

But it doesn't have to begin then. The Mill doesn't have to begin then. It's not a promise of Time, but of Bodies, Eph 4:12-13, so it actually begins when it actually begins.
Post Posted: 17 Nov 2015, 00:40

All times are UTC

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited